Is it still possible to be part of the Songcrafter Community even though ....

[Super 8]

.... you're no longer using a Roland/Boss machine to record your finished songs?

A POTTED HISTORY OF A PART-TIME HOBBY RECORDIST!

OK, a potted history of my recording 'means of production' down through the years ....  I started off recording music at the grand ol' age of 14 on an analogue Tascam audio-cassette 4-track porta-studio.  Once I'd 'cut my teeth' as it were my next machine was a cool old wardrobe-sized 8-track with a built-in 1/4 reel-to-reel (wish I still had it!)  I somehow managed to drop this one down a flight of stairs during a house move and ended up taking it down the tip (this was pre-eBay days! You can sell any old iron 'For Spares or Repairs' these days it seems! 'One man's rubbish' an' all that!)  Anyway, after dropping my beloved 'wardrobe recorder' I didn't bother replacing it or recording anything for the longest time after! 

Thing is, as you'll probably know, once this muzak-making lark grabs you, it doesn't won't let you go and, sure enough, I (eventually!) ended up getting another machine to record songs on.  A lot had changed in the interim and now I had the choice of 'going digital'.  Personally I STILL to this day prefer the warmth of analogue recording but digital is more versatile & 'a lot less bovver than a hover' so I've never really gone back to analogue since making the digital leap as it were. (Maybe someday when I've paid off the mortgage I'll buy an ol' Studer 4-track reel-to-reel and install it in my song-writing weekend retreat farmhouse on The Isle of Mull eh? HA! HA! I wish!!!) Anyway, where was I?  Rambling for a change  .... 

Yeah, the next machine I got was a Boss BR-8.  I learnt the digital ropes (V-tracks 'Man', like 'WOW!') then, further down the line, splashed out on a Roland BR1600 recorder (back when they were still relatively cheap!)  I had some great, productive times with that very machine!  I even ended up recording an entire solo album with it (in an attic!)  Thing is, I didn't have the budget to promote it (still don't!) and, to this day, I have 500 hand-stuffed physical CDs gathering dust in the corner of the very attic where the album was recorded - it's never seen the light of day!  (Note to self: 'Must do something about that!') 

So what happened next? (Exciting isn't it??!  )  Err ... after I recorded said 'lost' album I went off and 'did other things'.  I can't even recall what happened to the BR1600 now I come to think of it - it's never 'turned up' in the bottom of a box & I'm hoping one day I might stumble across it again! 

After 'doing other things' (one of which involved moving to another country) I went 'back to my roots' as it were (albeit digitally this time) and, having recorded an album with 16 tracks at my disposal, I bought a Boss Micro BR 4-track and joined this forum in 2008 (I think!) I started writing songs again using that little machine and very much enjoyed the whole community spirit & vibe of this very forum (although, if my memory serves me well, it wasn't called 'Songcrafters' back then).  In fact many of the the songs I demo'd with the Micro BR went on to become fully realised recordings produced in a commercial studio with a full band (but that's another story!)  Musical differences, the bass player getting amorous with the lead guitarist's wife, etc ... (ie: all the usual band stuff!) the band split and, once again (!), I threw the towel in and 'baked bread' for the next 5 years or so. 

That brings us up to date or thereabouts - glad to make your acquaintance!  I got hold of a Boss BR-800 a couple of weeks ago and was pleased to go online and discover that this forum still exists - I even recognise some usernames from the good ol'/bad ol' days (yes I mean you's: Greeny; ORH; 64 Guitars; Henwrench; Hook!  How ya doing folks?)  I've been enjoying getting my head around the BR-800, it's a cool unit HOWEVER (!) a mate of mine is off to travel the world & needs a portable recorder as he can't take his permanent set up with him.  He's offered me a straight swap for his recording set up namely: an Apple Mac running Logic. 

I've done a fair bit of research and it certainly seems like a good deal.  I'm just thinking, since it's early days with the BR-800 I might be as well investing my time & efforts into learning how to use this Mac set-up instead? 

So, after a very 'round the houses' post here my question is:  If I decide to go with the swap can I still be 'part of your club' or do you have to be using a Roland/Boss recording set-up to be able to contribute?  Can I still be part of your gang eh?  You all seem so nice.  CHEERS! Trip    

       

[henwrench]

I don't think it matters what folks use to record their stuff on here at SC anymore. The only proviso is that people post new shit, not stuff recorded years ago...

                                                           henwrench

[64Guitars]

Songcrafters is primarily a community for users of Boss BR series recorders. It began as microrecorders.org, a support forum for the Boss Micro BR, then changed to BossBR.net to support all Boss BR series recorders. At the end of 2009, the name was changed to Songcrafters.org and all recordings were welcomed, regardless of the hardware or software used to record them. So, yes, you can continue to be part of the community and post recordings made with Logic or anything else. However, we're still primarily a Boss community, so any questions you might have about using Logic are probably best asked on a site that supports Logic. I've never used Logic myself, so I won't be able to help you at all. But Logic is a popular DAW which has been around for a long time, so I'm sure there are plenty of Logic forums out on the web. Check your favourite search engine.

Also, as henwrench mentioned, the focus of Songcrafters is on the music our members are actively making now, not what they recorded in the past. There are plenty of other sites where people can post their older recordings. We don't want to be an archive for people's past recordings. We want to be a community for people who are currently making music and want to share it with other like-minded people.

Have you ever recorded entirely in software before? It offers some advantages, but there are some serious disadvantages too. Mainly, the complexity of the software tends to get in the way of your creativity. Especially in the early days when you're struggling to learn the software, you'll spend more time thinking about the software than you do about your music. Your focus should be on the music when you're laying down your tracks. That's why I prefer a hybrid approach to recording. I use a Boss BR-864 for recording my music. It's very easy to use. I just switch it on, arm a track, and press the Record button. The simple operation of the BR doesn't get in the way of my music. Then, after all of my tracks are recorded, I export them individually to WAV files and do all of my final editing, mixing, and production on the computer. That's when the powerful features of software are most useful. When you're recording your tracks, the software is a hindrance and you're better off using a standalone recorder. But once the tracks are recorded, a software DAW is a great way to edit, mix, and master those tracks. So, if you can, I'd recommend keeping a BR for recording your tracks, and using Logic (or any other DAW) for editing, mixing, and mastering. You can record your tracks directly into Logic using a suitable audio interface, but I think you'll find that a BR is much easier. Have you tried using the SONAR DAW that came with your BR-800? It seems to me that you already have a great BR and a decent DAW, so I'm not sure that swapping it for Logic is a good idea.

[galestermusic]

 

Mainly, the complexity of the software tends to get in the way of your creativity. Especially in the early days when you're struggling to learn the software, you'll spend more time thinking about the software than you do about your music. Your focus should be on the music when you're laying down your tracks.

[/i]

I can totally vouch for this. Will be honest, Cakewalk baited me and I took the bait. I guess now it's more about the challenge.

64G I will say your hybrid method for the hobbyist is the easy, practical, and efficient way of doing it.

I have learned that reverb is best used in VERY small doses.

[Super 8]

Wise words indeed!  Like I say, I've had a long relationship with Roland/Boss recorders - so far to date I've owned: a Boss BR-8; a BR1600CD; a Boss Micro BR and currently a Boss BR-800 so I'm fairly familiar and have to admit that this is a difficult decision.  The Apple gear I've been offered is worth considerably more than what I paid for the BR-800 but, it's not all about money is it.  I feel 'at home' with a Boss. Hmm ... big decisions!       

[64Guitars]

Another reason I prefer to record with my BR is that I can take the BR to where I want to do the recording. That's an important consideration for me because my guitars and my main keyboard are downstairs in my living room, while my desktop computer is upstairs in a small bedroom that I use as an office. If I didn't have a BR and had to do all of my recording on the computer, it would be a big problem for me. I could bring a guitar upstairs but it's not very convenient. There isn't much room and it would be hard to sit at my desk and operate the computer while I've got a guitar strapped on. And there's nowhere I can set it down where it wouldn't be in the way. My living room is much bigger and more comfortable, so I'd much rather record there than in my office. But I can't set up my desktop computer in my living room. So the BR provides the perfect solution. I can leave it in the living room with my guitars and keyboard. When I'm finished recording my tracks, I simply pop out the CompactFlash memory card and take it upstairs to the computer, where I use BR Wave Converter to transfer all the tracks. Then I can edit and mix my tracks in software. The computer stays in my office where it belongs and the BR stays downstairs in my living room where it belongs. Also, though I've never done it, I could take the BR into any room in the house to record wherever I'm most comfortable. I could even take it into the bathroom for some natural reverb. You can't do that with a desktop computer.

You didn't say if the Mac you're considering is a desktop or a laptop. If it's a desktop, then you might want to think about the practicality of keeping your computer and your instruments in the same location. Of course, if it's a laptop, you can move it around the house fairly easily. However, even then, there will be cables to disconnect/connect (audio interface, microphones, perhaps a mouse) each time you want to move the computer. So it's easiest if you can leave your recording equipment (computer or BR) in one location with everything connected instead of having to set up everything each time you want to record, then pack it all away again when you're done.

[bruno]

I would say a Mac for a BR is a great swap. Remember on the Mac (depending on how old the system is), has GarageBand, which is great for recording - an real simple DAW. You need an some kind of Audio device - I have an Edirol. Given the chap has logic, its a fair bet that interface will be thrown in. The thing is with Macs is that they do have a second hand value (like BMW's), so they cost a lot, but retain their value. Depends on the style of music, but the Mac has a load of really good soft synths and loops (GarageBand that is) - I dunno about Logic, but I've heard that it is complex. I record mainly on my BR1600, I like the sound, but have used GarageBand when the mood takes me.

B

[64Guitars]

Another consideration is noise from the computer. I understand that Macs are usually pretty quiet, but my PC is not! The fans and drives make a hell of a racket, which would make it very difficult to do any recording with microphones. I don't know if Macs even have fans. But, if they do, keep in mind that fans tend to get noisier with age. So, while a new Mac might be very quiet, it could start to get noisy after a few years if it has any fans in it. And I think even Macs have a fan on the CPU to keep it from overheating - even Mac laptops - so noise could become a problem if you're recording with microphones near the computer. The BR-800 is completely solid state. No fans. No hard drive. Totally silent operation.

[Super 8]

Thanks for your input folks.  We have a winner! (ME! Ha! Ha!) Yes, decision made.  I opted for 64 Guitars wise advice ie: write & record my future songs using a BR-800 then transfer component tracks (if need be - I suppose it all depends on the song really) to .wav format then out to .... a Mac (that's the plan anyway!)  Yes, I ended up swapping my original BR-800 for the Mac stuff then, as luck would have it, rapidly got to replace the one I'd swapped with another BR-800 that came up for a good price in the local free ads (as if it was meant - spooky!)  Best of both worlds I'm hoping.  I'm feeling quietly pleased (and somewhat relieved too!) this end.  OK, let's get some songs cooking .... glad to be back 'on board' (geddit?!)  CHEERS!!!!!!!!!!!         

[DannyB_KY]

Lest we forget, Sonar is not ported for Mac....