iPad meets Pink Floyd

[beleg]

All this machinery making modern music / Can still be open-hearted. / Not so coldly charted, it's really just a question / Of your honesty, yeah, your honesty.

-Rush,  The Spirit Of Radio. 1980

[64Guitars]

I'm still trying to decide what I think about that youtube video.
On the one hand I like gadgets and electronics seem the way of the future.
But I also like live "real" instruments, of wood, steel, brass, vacuum tubes, dials, circuit boards, silicone, oh wait...

Maybe it is the app part that is giving me issues, no need for music knowledge, just point at a note and the app does the rest

I feel the same way. I love technology for creating new sounds and possibilities in music creation. For example, I think synthesizers are wonderful. When I can afford one, I really want to buy a guitar synth. But whether we're talking about guitar synths or conventional keyboard synths, they still require musical training and lots of practice. They are real musical instruments enhanced by technology to produce a much wider variety of sounds.

But I worry that these apps are making it too easy to create good-sounding music with no training and little practice. For example, I believe that most of these music apps will let you select a key so that they only present the notes of that key on the screen. While I admit that it takes a little bit of skill to select the desired notes at the right time, there's no chance of hitting a wrong note (notes outside the selected key) since the app hides them from you. So anyone can make reasonably good-sounding music with no previous musical training and little practice. All you have to work on is your timing and phrasing.

Most real instruments require lots of skill and practice to get a good sound (just listen to any beginning violinist). You can't just pick up a guitar for the first time and play a note that sounds good. It will most likely sound muffled/muted because you don't have the strength to press the string down firmly enough or you're not pressing it in exactly the right place. And/or you'll get lots of string buzz. The way that you pick the string is also an important part of the sound. So it takes years of practice to be able to get a good sound from a guitar. And no two players sound alike. If Jeff Beck lent me his Strat, I'd sound nothing like him. He picks the strings in a very different way than I do, and his fretting hand has a much more skillful touch than mine. So even if I learned one of his songs note-for-note (not that I could) and played it on his guitar, I wouldn't sound anything like him.

But a note played on a music app will sound the same whether it's played by a master musician or a chimpanzee. There is no right or wrong way to trigger the note. You simply point to it on the screen and press. The resulting sound will always be the same no matter who triggers it. Of course, the same might be said of keyboard synthesizers. But playing a keyboard requires knowledge of scales and chords. Otherwise, you'd play lots of wrong notes for the key of the song. And most modern keyboards have velocity-sensitive keys, so the way that you press the key does affect the sound. But with many music apps, you don't need to know scales or chords because the app takes care of that. And you don't need a skillful touch to trigger the notes. Any note will sound the same each time you trigger it.

The fact that these apps run on an iPad or iPhone isn't what bothers me. If I could plug a guitar or a conventional keyboard controller into an iPad and use an app to enhance and broaden the range of sounds that I can produce, I'd be all for it. What I don't like is that they eliminate the musical instrument and the skill and training required to play it. Instead, you just point to a limited display of "right" notes and press the screen. In my opinion, that makes it too easy for anyone to play it without any musical training. Why would anyone want to listen to my music when they can make their own music that's just as good, or even better (to their tastes) with little effort? A large part of what we admire in other musicians is their extreme skill on their instruments. We know how hard it is to play, and that we may never be able to do it as good as them no matter how long we practice. But if everyone plays an app instead of a real instrument, what reason would we have to admire any particular app player? We know that it's easy and that we could play it the same as them if we put a bit of time and effort into it. So what's the big deal? I can't imagine any app players becoming music stars. Who would want to pay to see them play their app on stage? Who would buy their albums when they can make their own albums to their own tastes fairly easily? It seems to me that these apps could have a very bad effect on the future of music. Real musicians could become surplus to requirements.

[Oldrottenhead]

Real musicians could become surplus to requirements.

they said that about synthesisers.

have you thought about it the other way round that someone playing around with such an app may lead them to learning to play an instrument.

i am sure when the first piano came out the reaction was the same, bloody cheats all the notes black and white with little sticks to hit the strings they are not real musicians.

and i am  sure the person that came up with  frets for stringed instruments had the musicians union wanting him burned at the stake   

i am still waiting for the app i can plug directly into my brain to record the songs and tunes that come to me that i will never have the ability to play. joe meek used to humm to his session musicians what he wanted them to play, imagine he had an ipad. wow!

[bruno]

I have no problem with new technology - however it takes time for technology becomes musical. Early synths were a novelty, and some good and bad music was made. Now synths are very musical. The iPod give a touch device, you can be wowed by the sounds, however this piece is quite sterile. This type of interface will get there, but its in its infancy, and I really don't think its that musical as of now. In a few years, I'm sure that we'll get digital instruments will a wealth of sounds and capabilities - things that we can only dream of now - however, not yet for me. There are those who with love them, and I'm sure if I had a play, I'm sure it would put a smile on my face, however - I'm not quite there as yet. Another tool - sure, is it musical - now I'm not so sure!
B

 

[IanR]

I feel the same way. I love technology for creating new sounds and possibilities in music creation. For example, I think synthesizers are wonderful. When I can afford one, I really want to buy a guitar synth. But whether we're talking about guitar synths or conventional keyboard synths, they still require musical training and lots of practice. They are real musical instruments enhanced by technology to produce a much wider variety of sounds.

So what's the big deal? I can't imagine any app players becoming music stars. Who would want to pay to see them play their app on stage? Who would buy their albums when they can make their own albums to their own tastes fairly easily? It seems to me that these apps could have a very bad effect on the future of music. Real musicians could become surplus to requirements.

You are quite right and very entitled to your opinion but consider the following:  When we use the rhythm track on our mbr we are keeping a drummer out of work.  When you get your synth in the future, you will denying a whole bunch of string players and horn players a bit of work.

AND there are festivals where there are only DJs (eg Fatboy Slim) attracting HUGE crowds.

Who says that the ipad players of the future won't attract the same crowds.  They could easily replicate that youtube video on a large video screen behind the band.   I bet my kids would go!  (but I probably wouldn't).

cheers,

Ian

[beleg]

It’s just like anything else, when a new piece of technology comes out that makes something easer, you get a surge content (in this case songs) from people who would not have otherwise spent the time/resources to create content. In my opinion the surge produces allot of low quality work or novel content that has a very short shelf life. Over time however, the same people who would have spent 1000 hours playing guitar in their room, rack up 1000 hours on the new technology. They start using it in clever and innovative ways, producing real art.


64,
      I hear what you are saying about the apps not having any dynamics, and personally I really respond to subtle variations of dynamics in music. That being said, I really believe that creativity flourishes the best when it has restrictions. Let’s say I hire you to write a jingle. I want the song to start off making the listener sad, then happy and then excited/riled up, but I need this to happen in exactly 25 seconds to fit the ad. That is a tall order and is going to force you to come up with creative solutions that you never would have come up with had you not been given the time restriction. Because of the lack of dynamics within the app, the musician is going to have to be creative in other ways in order to compose a song that sounds different than what everyone else is doing.

[bruno]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UfdosJkvM0

[bruno]

Now this is more like it ....



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm5qePEwjho

[64Guitars]

Thanks for posting those two videos, Bruno. They illustrate my point quite well.

WaveDrum: You play it.

iPad guitar app: You only tell it what to play. Point to a chord name and make a strum gesture. No music knowledge required. No tactile interaction requiring any skill. You don't have to be a musician to use it.

The WaveDrum is awesome! Despite being full of technology, it's a real instrument that you have to play. It requires skill, knowledge and practice. You interact with it in a very tactile way, with your hands, drum sticks, brushes, mallets, etc. I'd have a great deal of respect and admiration for anyone who could play a WaveDrum well. I'd have no respect or admiration for someone playing that iPad guitar app.

[Gritter]

bottom line...ipad simply has no feel.