BR-600 using the BR-800 Rhythm Editor on Win 10

[The Angus]

Hi all,

I used my BR-600 at the weekend to record a band practice and was happy with the results. I downloaded the Boss WAV Converter software and that got me thinking about using the Rhythm Editor software for any of my own projects.

As I understand it, the specific BR-600 one won't work on 64bit systems, but the BR-800 will and is compatible with the BR-600. The problem then becomes linking my BR-600 to a Win 10 pc (in order to use the software) which I gather is highly problematic.

Is there a way of using the Rhythm Editor without the BR-600 and then manually importing it from the compact flash or through the line in.... or something?

I couldn't find much on the basics of this stuff on Youtube -  grateful for any advice, as always.

All the best.
   

[64Guitars]

I used my BR-600 at the weekend to record a band practice and was happy with the results. I downloaded the Boss WAV Converter software and that got me thinking about using the Rhythm Editor software for any of my own projects.

As I understand it, the specific BR-600 one won't work on 64bit systems, but the BR-800 will and is compatible with the BR-600. The problem then becomes linking my BR-600 to a Win 10 pc (in order to use the software) which I gather is highly problematic.

Is there a way of using the Rhythm Editor without the BR-600 and then manually importing it from the compact flash or through the line in.... or something?

I can't think of any reason why you can't connect a BR-600 to a Windows 10 PC. The BR is just a standard USB storage device, so any modern OS should recognise it. Then again, I've never used Windows 10 so I don't know what sort of bizarre nonsense Microsoft has been up to.

If Windows 10 refuses to recognise the BR-600, just turn it off and pop the memory card out. Then put the memory card into an ordinary USB card reader which Windows should recognise. As I said, the BR just acts as a standard USB storage device in exactly the same way that a card reader does. So the memory card looks exactly the same to the BR Rhythm Editor software (as well as to the BR Wave Converter software). The software has no way of knowing whether the memory card is in a card reader or an actual BR, so it will work just fine either way.

I prefer to use my USB card reader with the BR software rather than connecting my BR-864 directly because my card reader is USB 3.0 and my BR-864 (like the BR-600) is only USB 1.1 which is much slower. So the software works better with the card reader because it's much faster. The only caveat is that you have to be careful removing and re-inserting the memory card in the BR because you can bend or break a pin, potentially rendering the BR's memory card slot unusable. Always insert the card very gently and make sure all the pins are lined up before gradually applying more pressure to fully insert the card. After many years of use, I've never had any bent pins in mine, but I've heard of other BR users who have managed to bend a pin or two or even break pins off.

[AndyR]

There may be something in the USB 3 / USB 1 thing?

I've got a laptop with two 3s and a "not 3" (I dunno what it is, I was about to type 1, but it could be 2).

I had windows 8.1 on here, windows 10 now.

I can't remember when I learnt the following (8.1 or 10), but:

DO NOT EVER CONNECT THE BR1600 TO USB 3.0, ALWAYS USE THE OLDER SLOT.



The result was "it doesn't work if you plug it in a USB 3.0 slot" - but the experience was kinda more drawn out than "oh! not working" ... can't remember the details, but I do recall losing a day and being terrified I'd lost access to my masters.

When I figured out the other slot worked, USB 1, slow yeah, but at least It's working... I was MIGHTY relieved.
(BR1600 is HD, not card, otherwise I'd have been going down the card-reader route that I'd learnt with the MBR)

[The Angus]

If Windows 10 refuses to recognise the BR-600, just turn it off and pop the memory card out. Then put the memory card into an ordinary USB card reader which Windows should recognise. As I said, the BR just acts as a standard USB storage device in exactly the same way that a card reader does. So the memory card looks exactly the same to the BR Rhythm Editor software (as well as to the BR Wave Converter software). The software has no way of knowing whether the memory card is in a card reader or an actual BR, so it will work just fine either way.

Thanks 64 and AndyR, I was in error. I got the impression from what I read that there would be problems and my initial attempts were unsuccessful. I tried again yesterday and successfully connected.

I'm slightly in the dark about the basics though. I accessed USB in the BR-600's utility menu, and selected IMPORT and the chose some tracks. 7/8 I think. At that point the Rhythm utility software was able to connect to the BR-600, but looking at Youtube the BR-800 accesses the software very differently. Shouldn't I not be writing to those tracks, but to the appropriate Song area on the flashcard, so that I can access the drum data I've created and use them on the dedicated rhythm track rather than on any of the user tracks?

I feel like I'm being dumb - sorry.

I found the docs with the software to be less helpful than I'd like. Are there any walkthroughs that don't assume you know what you're doing.  :-)  I'm happy to fiddle about with the program and try to work out how to produce rhythms - I'm just rather confused by the details of how the program works with the BR-600 and the steps required to achieve that.

[64Guitars]

I'm slightly in the dark about the basics though. I accessed USB in the BR-600's utility menu, and selected IMPORT and the chose some tracks. 7/8 I think. At that point the Rhythm utility software was able to connect to the BR-600, but looking at Youtube the BR-800 accesses the software very differently. Shouldn't I not be writing to those tracks, but to the appropriate Song area on the flashcard, so that I can access the drum data I've created and use them on the dedicated rhythm track rather than on any of the user tracks?

The way the program works with the BR is by accessing the files on its memory card. When you save a pattern or arrangement from the program, it writes to the appropriate file on the memory card. You don't need to have any knowledge of these files as the program does all the work for you. After you write your patterns and arrangements from the BR Rhythm Editor and exit the program, your patterns and arrangements will be ready to use in the BR's rhythm track of the song. The BR Rhythm Editor program lets you choose which song to edit, so when you write your edited patterns and arrangements, they're written only to the song you've selected.

To use the BR Rhythm Editor:

1) Connect the BR-600 to your computer with a USB cable.

2) Put the BR-600 into Backup Mode by pressing [UTILITY], select "USB", then select "BACKUP". The BR's display will show:

USB BACKUP
Idling...

3) Start the BR Rhythm Editor program. It's important that you establish a backup mode connection with your computer (screen says "Idling...") before you start the program. If you mistakenly started the program earlier, click the CONNECT button at the top of the BR Rhythm Editor (to the right of the SONG READ button). Once the program has established a connection, the button's name will change to DISCONNECT.

4) At the top of the BR Rhythm Editor, click the SONG READ button to select the song you wish to work with. These are song projects which already exist on the BR's memory card. The program automatically lists all of the songs in the drop-down list. This works best if you've given your song projects meaningful names in the BR-600 (or in BR Explorer or BR Song Librarian). Otherwise, you'll just see the default names ("SONG0001", "SONG0002", etc.) and it will be harder to recognise the song you wish to work on.

5) In the PATTERN section and/or the ARRANGEMENT section, select the pattern or arrangement that you wish to edit. By default, the pattern names are "EMPTY001", "EMPTY002", etc. unless you've previously renamed them on the BR. You can edit the name of a pattern by clicking the [>] button to the left of the pattern name. Likewise, you can edit an arrangement's name by clicking the [>] button to the left of its current name.

6) Create or edit the patterns and arrangement(s) as desired.

7) Save the current pattern and/or arrangement by clicking the PATTERN WRITE or ARRANGEMENT WRITE buttons. A popup window will appear in which you must again select the pattern or arrangement slot in which you wish to save the current pattern or arrangement. If you've renamed the pattern or arrangement, its previous name will still be shown in the list. However, after you've written the data by clicking the [OK] button, the new name will appear in the list in future.

[The Angus]

2) Put the BR-600 into Backup Mode by pressing [UTILITY], select "USB", then select "BACKUP". The BR's display will show:

That is most helpful 64, very many thanks (again!)


Presumably, most people would start a song by putting the rhythm track down initially, so one would simply get the BR to create a new song (folder) and go straight to the rhythm software to generate the drum arrangement?

Having done that, is it straightforward to create a little library of arrangements that you can use repeatedly in your various songs?


I'm thinking from, what you say, I could create several "blank" songs on a CF card with the BR-600 (unless I can do that manually?) and then just connect the card with an adaptor and have some fun experimenting with the rhythm editor.

Reminds me of using Sound Tracker/Pro Tracker back on the Amiga.  :-)
 

[64Guitars]

Presumably, most people would start a song by putting the rhythm track down initially, so one would simply get the BR to create a new song (folder) and go straight to the rhythm software to generate the drum arrangement?

The important thing is to establish the tempo map by creating an arrangement. That can be as simple as a single metronome pattern followed by a BREAK pattern after the final measure of the song. Once you have that, you can start recording your audio tracks to that tempo. Then you can return to the drum arrangement later and add/replace patterns and fills to improve the drum track.

I usually start with either a preset drum pattern or a simple custom pattern that I've created and repeat it for the length of the song. Since the metronome is just a preset pattern, I figure I might as well use an actual drum pattern instead since it sounds better and is more enjoyable to play along with. Then, after I've recorded some audio tracks, I'll come back to the drum track to improve it.

Having done that, is it straightforward to create a little library of arrangements that you can use repeatedly in your various songs?

Yes, you can do that. However, personally, I don't think it's good to use the same arrangement in multiple songs. It's a bit like recording a rhythm guitar track or a bass track, then re-using that same track in other songs. It's an artistic cop-out. Anyway, once you've made a few drum arrangements, you'll find that it's very easy to do. So it's not much trouble to create a unique drum track for each song.

I'm thinking from, what you say, I could create several "blank" songs on a CF card with the BR-600 (unless I can do that manually?) and then just connect the card with an adaptor and have some fun experimenting with the rhythm editor.

Yes, you can create a bunch of blank songs on the BR-600 and use them to experiment with the Rhythm Editor. Also, each song can contain up to 5 different arrangements and 100 patterns, so you don't need many songs if you just want to experiment with the program.

Tip: A convenient way to create a bunch of empty song projects is with BR Song Librarian. Create one new song on the BR-600, then use BR Song Librarian to copy that song to your computer. I named mine "000 - New empty song project". The "000" ensures that it's always at the top of my song list when it's sorted by folder name. Now, whenever you want to create a new song, just use BR Song Librarian to copy that song from your computer back to the BR-600 as many times as you like, giving each copy a unique name.

Reminds me of using Sound Tracker/Pro Tracker back on the Amiga.  :-)

If you like that sort of thing, check out MilkyTracker. It's available for Linux, Mac, Windows, and Amiga.

Also, there's a free ProTracker web app here: https://www.file-hunter.com/MSX/index.php?id=protracker

[guitarron]

I haven't used my br600 in years, so I'm curious. Has the Rhythm Editor been updated or changed at all from it's early version. Just curious. Might be dragging the old 600 out of moth balls

[64Guitars]

I haven't used my br600 in years, so I'm curious. Has the Rhythm Editor been updated or changed at all from it's early version. Just curious. Might be dragging the old 600 out of moth balls

Nothing has changed feature-wise. There were updates upon the release of the Micro BR, BR-900CD and BR-800 but the purpose was only to make the BR Rhythm Editor compatible with those recorders. As far as I can tell, the BR-800 version works well with all of the earlier BRs. So you can update to the BR-800 version if you wish, but you won't gain any new features or capabilities.

[The Angus]

Yes, you can do that. However, personally, I don't think it's good to use the same arrangement in multiple songs. It's a bit like recording a rhythm guitar track or a bass track, then re-using that same track in other songs. It's an artistic cop-out. Anyway, once you've made a few drum arrangements, you'll find that it's very easy to do. So it's not much trouble to create a unique drum track for each song.


If you like that sort of thing, check out MilkyTracker. It's available for Linux, Mac, Windows, and Amiga.

Also, there's a free ProTracker web app here: https://www.file-hunter.com/MSX/index.php?id=protracker

Many thanks 64. I think you're right about the cop-out. But using the rhythm has until now been a bit of a chore that's put me off, and I'm thinking more in terms of sketches than my definitive masterworks.  :-)

Thanks also for the Protracker links.