easiest recorder?

[64Guitars]

I didn't realise that I had to select the tracks that I'd bounced to - to hear the bounced mix.

I was surprised about that too because earlier BRs such as my BR-864 (and the BR-532, I believe) always bumped the v-track automatically after a bounce. It would select whichever pair of v-tracks were used as the bounce destination. For the remaining 6 tracks, it would bump the v-track to the next empty v-track on that particular track. The v-tracks didn't necessarily all end up the same but they were guaranteed to be empty (except for the pair containing the mix, of course). For example, if I recorded 8 tracks on v-track 1 then recorded an alternate take of Tr3v1 on Tr3v2 and bounced the mix to Tr78v8, the v-tracks would end up like this after the bounce: Tr1v2, Tr2v2, Tr3v3, Tr4v2, Tr5v2, Tr6v2, Tr7v8, Tr8v8. The first 6 tracks would be empty and ready for new stuff, and tracks 7/8 would be playing the mix from the bounce.

It seems like a sensible thing. But it has its drawbacks too. Because it's automatic, users can bounce without having to understand v-tracks. That seems like a good thing until you want to do something that does require an understanding of v-tracks and you're totally lost. For example, I used to see a lot of questions from users of the earlier BRs about losing tracks after a bounce. They'd panic after their first bounce and think "Oh my god! All of my tracks have been erased and all I've got left is the mix." They'd typically discover this when they decided they didn't like the mix and wanted to go back and remix or edit something. Of course, the tracks were not erased at all. If you want to remix or edit the original tracks, you just have to set the v-tracks back to where they were when those tracks were recorded (typically, v-track 1).

Perhaps the best advice for beginners trying to understand v-tracks is to check the v-track screen often so that you always know exactly which v-track is selected on each of the 8 (or 4) playback tracks, which v-tracks have something recorded on them, and which are empty. The v-track screen shows you all of this information. V-tracks that have been recorded show as a darkened box. Empty v-tracks show as an empty box. And the currently-selected v-track is underlined. The underline is actually a cursor. So you can change the currently-selected v-track by using the TIME/VALUE wheel or the cursor left/right keys (on models that have them) to move the cursor to the desired v-track.

Out of curiosity, can anyone tell me how the BR-80 and BR-800 behave after a bounce? Do they bump the v-tracks or leave them where they were before the bounce? I'm just wondering if Roland has abandoned the idea of automatically bumping the v-tracks after a bounce, or if it's only the Micro BR that doesn't do it.

[jules metcalfe]

When i bounce on the 532, say track 3 and 4 into 1 and 2, try not using v tracks, get the take your happy with and simply 'Untilty-Track edit- Erase-ALL' if you have to do a re-take or UNDO if your not that far on it.  In the manual it says to pan track 3left 50. and 4 right 50.  I found a much better balance putting them both at 25 each or there abouts.  Try using the drum machine with your tracks this is where it comes into its own, the drums, ok its an old machine, but get your head round using it and it can change your life! Trust me it kicks! And copy/move/erase feature is a bit more advanced but that again can shape your writing into a different level. I love the buzz about this machine and am about to invest in a more modern one, still, i will never-ever get rid of my good ole' 532. Keep Rockin. Love. J

[Redler]

I don't use bouncing hardly at all. I'm not sure is my way "wrong", but I do it this way: I record tracks, adjust reverb and then master them individually with or without mastering effects to wav format. Then, I export them to Audacity, clean off all undesired noise, adjust track levels and pan tracks. I'd like to know your opinion of my recording process...

It took long time to understand bouncing process. Just like Ian wrote above, I didn't either deselect the tracks that I had bounced from...

[64Guitars]

I don't use bouncing hardly at all. I'm not sure is my way "wrong", but I do it this way: I record tracks, adjust reverb and then master them individually with or without mastering effects to wav format. Then, I export them to Audacity, clean off all undesired noise, adjust track levels and pan tracks. I'd like to know your opinion of my recording process...

I think the idea behind your process is fine. If I understand correctly, you're basically exporting your tracks as WAV files and importing them into Audacity to edit and mix them. I do the same thing with my BR-864. However, there's one detail in your process that I'd recommend changing. That's the mastering. Mastering should really only be done on the final mix. You could do that in Audacity or some other software, or you could export your mix from Audacity as a stereo WAV file and bring that WAV file back into the BR to apply mastering effects, if desired.

You shouldn't use mastering to get your individual tracks out of the BR as WAV files. Instead, you should just use the BR Wave Converter. The nice thing about the BR Wave Converter is that it will let you export several tracks in a single batch process. For example, let's say you've recorded 8 tracks on your BR-80 and you want to bring them into Audacity. You would connect your BR-80 to your computer via USB with the BR-80 in STORAGE mode. Alternatively, you could remove the SD card from the BR-80 and put it into a memory card slot in your computer or a USB card reader. Then start up BR Wave Converter and select the appropriate drive and song. Your recorded tracks will appear as green boxes. Click the Export button if it's not already selected (green). Then click each of the green track boxes that you wish to export. Or you can click the ALL button if you want to select all of the recorded tracks. They will turn orange when selected. If some of your tracks are stereo, you can click the "L/R" Stereo Link button below the pair of tracks. This will produce a single stereo file for that pair of tracks instead of two mono files. When all of the desired tracks are selected, click the GO button to begin exporting. It will create a separate WAV file for each track (or pair of tracks if the Stereo Link button is on).

Now you can open Audacity and select Import / Audio from the File menu. You'll get a standard Open dialog from which you can select the folder containing your WAV files then select all of the WAV files and click the Open button. Audacity will create a separate track for each WAV file.

[IanR]

If I'm using the BR800 correctly, then there is no automatic process that moves all the tracks to the next vacant V-track after bouncing.

I have become "very advanced" lately   and I use the bounced tracks as a working mix in the BR800 while I record additional tracks.  Then, when the song is recorded, I move all the tracks into Sonar and do all the finishing off in there.  It's much easier to keep track of what each track is in Sonar because you can rename them.  Its also easier to apply effects and panning, etc as well. 

I still have to try using the BR800 as a control interface to adjust the track levels and master level, etc.

Ian

[Hook]

I don't use bouncing hardly at all. I'm not sure is my way "wrong", but I do it this way: I record tracks, adjust reverb and then master them individually with or without mastering effects to wav format. Then, I export them to Audacity, clean off all undesired noise, adjust track levels and pan tracks. I'd like to know your opinion of my recording process...

It took long time to understand bouncing process. Just like Ian wrote above, I didn't either deselect the tracks that I had bounced from...

Like 64 said the mastering each individual track strikes me as unusual but you know brother your tracks always sound excellent so maybe your onto something!!!!

As far as bouncing & virtual tracks go, I've lost tracks while learning each machine I've used (br900, dp004, ps02, mbr, MR8) it really comes down to getting a routine down. On a 4 track (my MBR) I would always fill the 1st 4 tracks (top row of the br wave converter) then mix those 4 to my v2 track 3/4. Then i always do my overdubs on the virtual 1 & 2 tracks & all bounces go to 3/4. If I run out of tracks I can always go back & erase some early bounces to clear up more tracks. I really miss my br900 with 6 mono tracks & stereo 7/8. I would do the same thing fill up all 8 tracks & bounce to v2 7/8 etc. Now with the MR8 I don't have virtual tracks at all so I fill the 4 mono tracks and my stereo 5/8(usually drums) & bounce to the stereo 7/8 then export all tracks to my computer. Mostly so I don't lose them, I tend to just continue working off & mixing into the most recent bounce until I'm done. I have huge files of of song folders on my desktop with wav after wav file & stacks of backup cd's from my br900.
If your looking for a machine that's as easy as the old cassette 4 tracks this Fostex MR8 is pretty freaking simple. If you're using effects from another source than it's a decent recorder that sells on ebay for around $60. That's the 1st generation (red one) they have one with better effects (maybe??) & they have an HD version also but I don't know if they are truly better machines. I wasn't thrilled with the Tascam Dp004, the 008 does look better but I bet it doesn't hold a candle to your br532. Watch that dvd and keep playing around & you'll get it brother!
Bounce On!

[Redler]

You shouldn't use mastering to get your individual tracks out of the BR as WAV files. Instead, you should just use the BR Wave Converter. The nice thing about the BR Wave Converter is that it will let you export several tracks in a single batch process...

I've totally forgotten the BR Wave Converter  . Thanks for the tips. For next time I'll import the "Audacity" WAV track back to the MBR or BR-80 and do the final mastering on it!

Now, I got also an idea to import a song that I've recorded on Korg Sound on Sound (and mixed on Audacity) to MBR or BR-80 for mastering!

[beatnikbiker]

thank you to all you lovely people for taking the time and trouble to reply to this post, its very appreciated....im trawling through the dvd and getting a better understanding of the machine, so il stick with the 532 for time being as combining your great explanations and dvd il soon be up to speed. cheers guys!  john

[Geir]

If I'm using the BR800 correctly, then there is no automatic process that moves all the tracks to the next vacant V-track after bouncing.

That is correct

[alfstone]

My personal experience:

when I was young   I too used a 4-tracks cassette recorder, a Fostex, with good results, considering the time, and that it was very easy and simple to use.

Since 2007 I've begun using a BR-600 (that I use still) and in the last year or so the BR-800.

Reading the comments above, there are some differences in my approach:

- I use virtual tracks for alternate takes of the same recording, and often I decide at the end the take I like most

- I never bounce tracks

- Using the BR Wave converter, after that all the single tracks have been recorded, I export them all on the PC or the Mac (as wavs or aiff), and after that I use specifical VST effects (my recording on the BRs are almost always dry, without any effect) for each track (Izotope Alloy and Toontrack EzMix are absolutely GREAT softwares for this purpose)

- for mixing I use ALWAYS Adobe Audition

- for the final effects on the final stereo remixed track both T-Racks and Izotope Ozone are wonderful softwares, so my choice for using T-Racks or Ozone on each song/tune depends on the my personal feelings about the single song/tune.

I use this approach for two main reasons:

1) I think that the quality (and the tweaking possibilities) of the VST effects is by far better than the one of the effects (comp-eq-reverb and so on) on hardware recorders such as the BR-Series (but I have also a Zoom R-16, and the same applies to it)

2) on a computer I can SEE and so I can UNDERSTAND better what's happening and what I can do to make a better sound than with the small LCD display of a hardware recorder.

Alfredo