Zoom H1 / H4n for recording guitar & vocal live ???

[des0free]

I was thinking about options for improving on the MBR's MONO recording of acoustic guitar & vocal

One idea is something like the Zoom H1, for $99, that has xy stereo mic recording WAV up to 24 bit, 96 kHz:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/zoom-h1-handy-recorder

I could position it on a stand halfway between my mouth and the guitar.

A fancier idea is the Zoom H4n, for $299, which can simultaneously record xy stereo mic plus TWO additional direct inputs: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/zoom-h4n-handy-recorder

Then I could use the xy mic to record the guitar (placed close to the guitar)
PLUS plug in a second condenser mic for vocals (placed close to mouth)
PLUS plug in the guitar directly (such as the output of a magnetic soundhole pickup?)

That way I'd have separate tracks to mix and add separate effects to vocals and guitar and have the opportunity to experiment with blending stereo mic and direct guitar inputs.

I suppose one could do the same thing with a BR800, but it would be more expensive

Anyone have any thoughts?

[64Guitars]

I don't know anything about those Zoom models but you could also consider Roland's R-05 for $199:



http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/R05/

http://www.roland.com/products/en/R-05/


However, if you just want better mics, why not buy better mics for your Micro BR?

If portability is important to you, you could consider the Roland BA-CS10 for $79. It's a stereo condenser mic that attaches directly to the Micro BR.



http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/roland-ba-cs10-stereo-microphone-for-micro-br

http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=1006

Or, if portability isn't a big concern, you could consider a pair of conventional external mics. There are many to choose from in a wide range of prices. If you buy condenser mics, you'll need a separate phantom power supply or a mixer or preamp that can supply phantom power.

Finally, you could always consider getting a BR-80 which has stereo mics built-in. At $299, it's the same price as the Zoom H4n and offers much more (8 tracks, drum machine, great effects, etc).


For recording acoustic guitar and vocals from one performer, I'm not sure that stereo mics will give you much better results than a single (mono) mic. You won't get much separation between channels as each mic is mostly picking up the same sound. Stereo mics are more practical when recording two or more performers simultaneously. Then you have multiple sound sources which will be picked up differently by each mic according to placement, so you get good separation.

A better (and less expensive) way to get good separation of your guitar and vocals is to record them separately to individual tracks. Then you can pan them anywhere you like during mixing/mastering. You can also widen the sound of the guitar by duplicating the guitar track, offsetting one slightly, and panning one left and the other right.

[chip]

I do what 64 says. I have one of these which is very good and is as cheap as chips. Does the job. I think a few others may have them too.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Sony-ECM-DS70P-Electret-Condenser-Stereo-Microphone-/180556525795?pt=UK_Music_Instruments_Microphones_MJ&hash=item2a0a01f0e3

[des0free]

I do what 64 says. I have one of these which is very good and is as cheap as chips. Does the job. I think a few others may have them too.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Sony-ECM-DS70P-Electret-Condenser-Stereo-Microphone-/180556525795?pt=UK_Music_Instruments_Microphones_MJ&hash=item2a0a01f0e3

Thank you.  I ordered a "Sony" one for $5 on ebay from China.  Presumably for $5 it must be a knockoff, not real Sony, right?  The same looking one is selling on ebay from US sellers for minimum $5.

Worth a try.

[des0free]

I don't know anything about those Zoom models but you could also consider Roland's R-05 for $199:



http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/R05/

http://www.roland.com/products/en/R-05/


However, if you just want better mics, why not buy better mics for your Micro BR?

If portability is important to you, you could consider the Roland BA-CS10 for $79. It's a stereo condenser mic that attaches directly to the Micro BR.



http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/roland-ba-cs10-stereo-microphone-for-micro-br

http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=1006

Or, if portability isn't a big concern, you could consider a pair of conventional external mics. There are many to choose from in a wide range of prices. If you buy condenser mics, you'll need a separate phantom power supply or a mixer or preamp that can supply phantom power.

Finally, you could always consider getting a BR-80 which has stereo mics built-in. At $299, it's the same price as the Zoom H4n and offers much more (8 tracks, drum machine, great effects, etc).


For recording acoustic guitar and vocals from one performer, I'm not sure that stereo mics will give you much better results than a single (mono) mic. You won't get much separation between channels as each mic is mostly picking up the same sound. Stereo mics are more practical when recording two or more performers simultaneously. Then you have multiple sound sources which will be picked up differently by each mic according to placement, so you get good separation.

A better (and less expensive) way to get good separation of your guitar and vocals is to record them separately to individual tracks. Then you can pan them anywhere you like during mixing/mastering. You can also widen the sound of the guitar by duplicating the guitar track, offsetting one slightly, and panning one left and the other right.

Thanks for the suggestions.  I have tried to order the similar "Sony" stereo mic from ebay, presumably at $5 it is actually a Sony knockoff.

I guess my main desire is being able to simultaneously record guitar & vocals, but be able to adjust their levels separately after the fact.  Maybe I could achieve some separation by using the little stereo mic, placed halfway between my guitar and mouth, but pointing the "Left" mic side up (toward my mouth) while pointing the "Right" side down (toward the guitar).  Perhaps then one track would have significantly more vox and the other significantly more guitar, and if I then separated them into two mono tracks I could thus have sufficient control over mixing the vox vs. guitar levels?

I could also record guitar and vox in two takes, but the funny thing is that with some songs I actually find it hard to do that.  In some cases I tend to sing better or more in sink while playing, and mess up the chord changes less while singing.  Singing kind of lets me keep track of where I am in the song in terms of chord changes, and vice-versa, if that makes any sense.  Also it is fun to practice singing and playing together, as one would do if performing live.

[Geir]

If you really want to go all the way you could do a "Hoop" :
https://songcrafters.org/community/index.php?topic=635.0

[chip]

I do what 64 says. I have one of these which is very good and is as cheap as chips. Does the job. I think a few others may have them too.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Sony-ECM-DS70P-Electret-Condenser-Stereo-Microphone-/180556525795?pt=UK_Music_Instruments_Microphones_MJ&hash=item2a0a01f0e3

Thank you.  I ordered a "Sony" one for $5 on ebay from China.  Presumably for $5 it must be a knockoff, not real Sony, right?  The same looking one is selling on ebay from US sellers for minimum $5.

Worth a try.

Glad I could help. I have two because the first one didn't arrive for while so I mailed the guy in HK and he sent me another, then the first one arrived the day after and the other one a week later. They are , as far as I can tell Sony, they have Sony written on them but I don't think they were in a box, so maybe not but they do work. I have found though there is not much seperation due to the mics being so close together, however they are probably as good as the 50 odd pound ones from boss.