If we can't read music are we musicians??

[FuzzFace]

I think what I'm hearing is that the consensus on this forum is that whoever said that is a snot.

[Tony W]

^

All of you can have the high road.

I try like hell to stay even tempered, and with age, I have mellowed. There are a few triggers which lead to very negative interactions on my behalf. The main triggers are somebody picking on a weaker individual or a friend. A situation like this nearly cost me a few years of my life, which I'm in no way proud of. 

Elitist attitudes grate me to my core. I curb my inner desire to allow venom to pass from my lips towards elitists, but always manage to fail at controlling it completely. At this moment I've had no less than fifty thoughts on things to say to the assbag you described Geoff. 

I wish I were the guy who is never affected by adverse situations, but its not in my DNA. Instead, I'm the guy who followed a dangerous driver 3 miles to where he stopped. I gave him the option of a lecture or an ass-whooping.

[AndyR]

I'm with you on "elitist attitudes" Tony. I'm particularly exasperated by folk who misguidedly destroy creativity in vulnerable individuals (people young or old who are starting out in exploring an artistic outlet).

In music this includes:
- People who tell parents that they must get Johny/Jane lessons when they start showing an interest in an instrument
- Parents or other adult relatives who tell a child to stop messing about (improvising) on their instrument and do their practise properly
- Guitarists who tell fellow guitarists that they need to know the modes in order to improvise "properly"
- Guitarists who tell fellow guitarists that they need to be able to read TAB in order to be a "proper" guitarist

... the list is endless.


What I find horribly frustrating is that, in most cases, there is usually an element of useful (and truthful) information in these statements, obscured by a false black and white judgement over what you "should" do.

For example, formal lessons can be very helpful to get you moving fast on an instrument. But there are many very good musicians who never had formal lessons. Lessons are not essential and, because of their very nature and relationship to "school", might actually stifle all motivation, desire, confidence, and, therefore, creativity. The need for lessons depends entirely on the individual and what they want to achieve. Lessons might be good at the outset, might be good later, or they might not be needed at all if the individual has a good ear and is in an enviroment where he/she can see good examples or share knowledge with others.

Those of us who are experienced enough to see through each statement are fine. But then we can see that the novice who is struggling for facts immediately grasps the only black and white rule they can see in the statement: "I must have lessons". So a potential "natural" goes to lessons, struggles with the methods on offer, decides he or she is not musical.... and never does it again... I weep... 

I utterly LOATHE anything or anybody that causes someone else to think that he or she is not creative


Ask this "if we can't read music, we aren't musicians" person if they've ever killed someone. If the answer is no, tell them that they're obviously not a human being. Then tell them that this statement is as preposterous as the one they insist on making.

[knniggits]

What are you if you're not a musician? When can you be called a musician? When you know that that dot means C? Or when you can play Beethovens 5th? 

[corryhully]

64 hit it spot on. no more to add.

[Bluesberry]

Instead, I'm the guy who followed a dangerous driver 3 miles to where he stopped. I gave him the option of a lecture or an ass-whooping.

And what was his choice Tony?

[Bluesberry]

How bout you bring up Stevie Wonder in your next conversation with him!

Driving in to work this morning I finally got this one...Hahahahahaha...Stevie Wonder...thats rich Sandy...I am slow sometimes....They were playing Very superstitious on the radio, and the guy mentioned that he played keyboards, vocals and drums...I was thinking how hard it must be for a blind guy to play drums...then it hit me...Hahahahahahaha...I almost went off the damn road from laughing...Stevie Wonder can't read music...Hahahahahahahahaha...good one Sandy.

[Oldrottenhead]

im sure i read somewhere stevie wonder can read music  in braille form , had a look and found this interesting discussion
http://macca.devstars.eu/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=2340507&sid=4e29aa239bf3e08ef648808c33c30462

[Gu Djin]

Oddly, or maybe not, I've never considered myself a musician.  I just like making happy noise.

I was in music shop not so long ago and eavesdropped to other customers discussing their "pupils"  I assumed they were music teachers.  One was saying that he didn't consider his students musicians - until they had completed a 3 hour concert without making mistakes.  I left quietly not wanting to disturb the immortals in their musing.

Leigh

[daveyboy]

Have to agree with all the responses to this.
I had lessons very early on in my guitar days, learning to read basic music, but what they were teaching me was just so uninspiring.
If you are making sounds that you want to make, you are a musician in my book