Compressor/Limiter for vocal/acoustic recordings

[Geir]

Much as I love my new BR800, I hate most of the preset vocal patches. They use WAY too much compression to my taste, and also therefore generate a lot of noise.

Anyone have some good tip on how to dial in a limiter that only acts as a safety-net against clipping?

ATTACK (0–100)
Adjusts the strength of the picking attack
when the strings are played. Higher
values result in s sharper attack,
creating a more clearly defined sound.
THRESHOLD (0–100)
Adjust this as appropriate for the input
signal from your guitar. When the input
signal level exceeds this threshold
level, limiting will be applied.
RATIO (1:1–∞:1)
This selects the compression ratio used
with signals in excess of the threshold
level.
RELEASE(0–100)
Adjusts the time from when the signal
level drops below the threshold until
when limiting is removed.
LEVEL( 0–100)
Adjusts the volume.

[Flash Harry]

Buy yourself an Alesis 3630.

But seriously:

Threshold 90. This sets the point at which the compressor (or limiter really in this mode) kicks in. Less than this and you are removing your dynamics, more than this and you are probably too late to start compressing, but move it around a bit. 80 will take the top end dynamics off it.

Ratio 100:1 or higher. This is the amount of compression that you add. Basically you want to stop further increases in volume at the mic adding further to the signal. Play around with this until you stop clipping whsn you're srceaming at it. Ifinity : 1 means that any further increase in volume will make no difference to the output signal.


Attack needs to be pretty short, because you want fast transients limited before they hit the clipper. 10 or less probably, but you want it so you don't hear it cutting in.

Release should again be quite quick, but you don't want the signal to increase in volume as it tails away. You will notice the Bass Pumping sort of thing if you get the decay too slow.

Didn't I have a tweak about with the compressor on the vocals when I was there? We had some trouble with clipping then....

[Geir]

Thanks Mike for your elaborative answer. I'll give those settings a try tonight. I wasn't too far off on my last recording except for the ratio that I had to 2:1, which may explain why I had trouble not clipping at first.

I'll use separate compressor settings for each input source (gotta love that 800 ) so bass pumping won't be a big problem for the vocals.

Any good compressor or limiter advice for acoustic guitar. Hard/soft strumming and fingerpicking?

[Ferryman_1957]

Geir, the best advice I can give is to buy a copy of the "Guerilla Home Recording", which AndyR recommended. For acoustic guitar, it says "strummed guitar benefits from compression, making it more punchy, fingerpicked parts call for gentler compression".

For vocals, it suggests the lower the threshold and the higher the compression ratio, the more "squashed" the vocal will be at the top end of the dynamic range. It gives good explanations of what all the parameters do and how to use them. Flash's settings seem to make sense if you just want limiting. BTW, 2:1 ratio is gentle compression.

Cheers,

Nigel

[AndyR]

(Massive waffle here  - hope something helps )

Sounds like Flash is the most experienced compressor user in the thread so far (including me)

I've just checked the presets I use in the BR1600. Interestingly, the two patches use a different kind of compressor model, neither of which provide the full set of settings I would expect...

Over the two, it seems I use a ballpark of the following:

Threshold 80
Ratio 8:1
Attack 50
Release 50

Now, I use the presets for two reasons: protection against clipping and gating to remove the sound of the neighbours etc.

Reading Flash's "80 will take the top end dynamics off it", my first thought was "GAHH! I been doing it wrong!".... but on the other hand, I like the vocals I've recorded with it, I've had no problems I've noticed, and I've felt very relaxed about levels while recording - something which has plagued me for years. I did notice there's some sort of enhancer in the chain as well, which I usually don't like... but I tried the preset early on, it did the job, and that was fine...

One thing I have had recently was when I was trying to record some percussion with my large condensor mic - I could not turn the input trim down low enough to stop peaking at the input (before the effects patch that has the compressor). So I gave up and got a dynamic mic out instead.

I've also had trouble recording a resonator with a large condensor (through a desk into a DAW a couple of years ago) - I got loads of clipping. So ended up getting an outboard dbx266XL compressor/gate. Up until I got the BR1600, I used this to record vocals into the MBR. The settings I used seem to be:

Threshold: -15
Ratio: 4:1
Attack: (bloody) fast
Release: (quite) slow

I've just re-read the sections in Guerilla Home Recording, and it seems that I set the machine according to the advice in there. This machine, with these settings, was used to record the vocals into an MBR for "If We Should Sing Together" and "Sooner or Later" - and up until then, these were the best vocals I'd ever managed to record, and the most relaxed I felt about the whole process. Since getting the BR1600, I haven't used the dbx, I'm using the presets at the top of this post, and it's been even easier, and the last vocals I did (Baby Has A Good Time Anyway) probably kick those earlier ones into touch.

I have to agree with Ferryman - get hold of Guerilla Home Recording and steal what ideas/approaches you want. It gives you a feel of what these toys are actually doing, tells you where to start, and seems to empower you to then go off and do what you like...

Incidentally, I couldn't find it this time, but somewhere in the book it says that it's far easier to learn what to do with a compressor if you have an outboard unit. Software compressors (plugins or what we have in BRs) have all the settings, but you can't hear/feel intuitively what it's doing so easily. That does seem to be my experience - after I'd got the outboard unit, and used it a bit, compression seemed to make a lot more sense to me. It's got little lights that show how it's operating while you sing/play - MASSIVE help, it tells you it's compressing and so you know it's time to listen for some sort of effect. Before that it was "er, what's the plugin doing? I put it on full and it sounds naff, anywhere in the middle and I've no idea what I'm meant to be listening for..."

For controlling vocals, a lot of this has to do with "mic technique" - and I suspect that some of my gradually disappearing problems are actually down to me learning a decent technique for addressing the mic.

For acoustic guitars, I tend not to use the BR1600 preset as I'm recording - it's actually because the gate in the chain causes problems I don't like. I couldn't be bothered to figure out how to set it (or turn the gate off), I just switched the patch off and recorded. I then apply compression in the mix-down (the 1600 has independent fully functional compressors on every playback track). I start off with about -10 threshold, 3:1 or 4:1 ratio, minimum attack and release, and soft-knee. I fiddle with it until it sounds about right. If I have two or more acoustics getting mixed, I try to find one of them that can be let into the mix with no compression at all.

I have to say - the 1600 made all this very easy and non-problematic for me. It's not something I've worried about too much since getting it 6 months back. However, when clipping does occur, it seems to be the input to the BR. I get this when recording synth as well. If the input/trim pot will not go any lower, you gotta turn down the output level of the instrument. If it's a microphone, you got a problem... in my case it's time to get a less responsive mic out, or my dbx unit and put the mic through that first.

[Bluesberry]

Here is a great article on compression http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1996_articles/apr96/compression.html

[Dmann]

Here's a pretty neat write up that gets things explained in layman's terms.

http://www.tweakheadz.com/how_to_record_vocals.htm

[Geir]

Just an update.

I've experimented a bit now, and have come to a temporary conclusion :

I turn OFF compression while recording.

Use no or very little compression on main vocals and guitars for acoustic pieces.

Harmony vox can benefit from medium to heavy compression.

More often than not, the compression in the mastering effect is sufficient to make a good mix.





Tomorrow my conclusion may be the complete opposite

[Flash Harry]

Tomorrow my conclusion may be the complete opposite

lol!