Boss BR-800: There IS a way to sync your synths via MIDI...

[Kafka]

Hello, I hope it's okay to do a first post on this forum without causing offence-apologies in advance. I've started up this new thread despite there already being a long running one on the BR-800 because I want to share some specific info on how I've managed to get  the 800 to tempo sync perfectly with my synth (which is a lovely Roland Gaia btw).

Most of the disappointment with the forum members here seems to be with the lack of track editing. I must admit it isn't a major blow to me, because punch in and out are still features on the BR 800 and that's all I've ever used. But the issue about 'no midi out' that was being bandied about hit me hard. I love my synced arpeggios and baselines, and to be honest, because I'd bought the 800 on blind faith that it would have a midi out like my old faithful BR-864, when I got it out of the box I thought I'd made a terrible mistake and was all set to send it back. No midi clock indeed!

But I have discovered a way to get my synth to sync for basic arpeggios and basslines via Sonar, more by accident and experimentation than anything else. I'm not going to put a full step by step up just yet-it's late, I'm tired and I want to go through the process a few times from scratch to make sure I don't give you good people duff instructions. But...it can be done!

Essentially, I've discovered that the BR syncs with Sonar using the SMPTE/MTC format. Great for accuracy in lining up event cues, but useless for tempo...or so I thought. If you connect up a midi synth to your computer (the Gaia does MIDI over USB) into Sonar, you can still control it tempo wise from Sonar via the software's Midi clock and MTC options.

You set the tempo of Sonar and the BR to exactly the same bpm, then in the midi track, you put the Br's midi signal into the 'in' box, and the 'out' box is where you make sure your synth is selected. Confused? You will be! But it WORKS!

What I THINK is happening is that the BR's SMPTE signal deals with the 'absolute' time value of the whole track, as well as basic 'machine' controls like stop, play, rewind, etc. This machine control also tells the synth when to start triggering notes; the Gaia would only play when the BR was in play or record mode. Sonar on the other hand provides the synth with the essential beat clock that is missing from the BR to make sure that arpeggios trigger in perfect sync with the BR's drum tempo. The two functions are almost working separately from each other, but by setting the tempos on the BR and Sonar to be the same, with the BR acting as the ultimate 'master' triggering device is what gives you the sync.

I hope this bit of info is helpful to folks on here. It'll probably turn out that you knew this all along! I really do like my BR-800, but I think it's a bit dishonest of Roland to be marketing it as a 'portable total solution'. At the very least, you have to lug a laptop around with you as well if you want synced midi beats. I went for the BR so that I could AVOID using DAWs-I just don't like them. Lack of standalone midi sync defeats the object really. Perhaps Roland will look at this as something they could incorporate in a firmware update, though if their lack of a response to my emails is anything to go by, maybe not!

Sorry post is so long. Bit tired now but will try to add a step by step if people here would find it useful. Your forum is great, by the way; really informative to a hobbyist like me.

[64Guitars]

This sounds interesting, however...

You set the tempo of Sonar and the BR to exactly the same bpm

If you have to set the tempos to the same BPM, then you don't have midi sync. With midi sync, only the master device controls the tempo. The slave devices are set to "external clock". Since the slaves don't use their own clocks, their tempo setting is irrelevant.

Although I can't say for certain, I suspect that the BR-800 transmits MTC at a frame rate of 30 frames per second (non-drop). Try setting both your GAIA and Sonar LE to 30 frames per second (non-drop) and set their clocks to external. With any luck, the BR-800 will then be the master and the GAIA and Sonar will be slaves. With all three devices using one clock (the BR-800's), you should have perfect midi sync.

[Kafka]

This sounds interesting, however...

You set the tempo of Sonar and the BR to exactly the same bpm

If you have to set the tempos to the same BPM, then you don't have midi sync. With midi sync, only the master device controls the tempo. The slave devices are set to "external clock". Since the slaves don't use their own clocks, their tempo setting is irrelevant.

Although I can't say for certain, I suspect that the BR-800 transmits MTC at a frame rate of 30 frames per second (non-drop). Try setting both your GAIA and Sonar LE to 30 frames per second (non-drop) and set their clocks to external. With any luck, the BR-800 will then be the master and the GAIA and Sonar will be slaves. With all three devices using one clock (the BR-800's), you should have perfect midi sync.

You're quite right-I must have been more tired than I thought last night-I didn't explain it very well.

Essentially what I did was slave the synth to Sonar, using MIDI beat clock, then got the BR-800 to act as the SMPTE/MTE over Sonar. A pretty clunky workaround, but there's no MIDI beat clock in the BR-800-and the SMPTE/MTC signal it sends out to Sonar has no effect whatsoever over rhythm tempo-it just syncs up to the overall track time in hours minutes and seconds.

I shall have a mess around with frame rates and external clock settings as per your suggestion though-anything to try and make it less complex!

[Luit77]

Thanks very much for this sharing.
It works also with Ableton
Now I can record an extern drumcomputer to the BR-800.
Never thought this was possible.
For now no need for another recorder yet.

[Arcticsound]

I'm planning on opening up the BR600 and seeing if I can tap into one of the volume sliders and send that track info to a Mini Audio Output Jack that I would install. That way I can cut the track down in the mix but have the midi sync code that I would stripe going out to the new output that I will mount. That way I can send it to my JL Cooper PPS2 then I can sync any midi drum machine/ seq to it with Song Pointer. First im going to have to look inside and see what it looks like inside. Also you can sync the Korg Voca,Pocket operators .. and other equipment without the JL Cooper PPS2. just by recording there sync code on to a track to the Boss BR600. It's really getting the sync code out of the BR600 without hearing in the mix. Also after you don't need the sync track just drop that track down to the next V track.