Mic'ing acoustic instruments.

[peterp]

After trying to record my acoustic through its internal preamp/pickup and getting very disappointing results.

I searched a bit on the "Great Google that knows all" and discovered that this is usually not a recommended thing  to do.
The internal pickup works well when sending to an acoustic amp, but not directly into a mixing board.

The next thing I discovered was the dynamic mic's I currently have, a Shure sm57 (very good for mic'ing an instrument amp) and a Shure sm58 (good for voice) are not really recommended for acoustic instruments.
They lack the range sensitivity needed, and the recommendation was to use a condenser mic.

Which led to my next surprise when I looked up condenser mics at the local music shops, and almost fell over when I saw the prices in the 1000$cdn range.

I did find some Bheringer C3 at under 100$cdn and a couple of apex in the 150$cdn range.

So after that long winded introduction to my topic, are there any experiences to be shared with these mic's ?
Or alternate recommendations?

FYI (just in case anyone else is intrested ) :
Here are the main pages I found the most useful information on recording acoustics
http://homerecording.about.com/od/recordingtutorials/a/acoustic_gtr.htm
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug01/articles/recacgtr0801.asp
http://www.audio-recording-center.com/article-acoustic-guitar.html
http://www.recordacousticguitar.com/
 

[cuthbert]

Does your recorder have a built-in microphone? The Boss BR series have a built-in condenser mic, and I use the built-in mic on my MicroBR exclusively. With the proper positioning, you can get great results.

[peterp]

Yes it does (I have a Micro-BR and a BR600 available to use) but....
I am running multiple mics into a Yamaha MG82cx mixing console then sending it's output into the recorder.

Trying to record a group effort, 4-5 acoustic guitars, and voices live.
We tried just using the built-in mic on the br-600 with it sitting in the center of us circled around it and it did not work out so well.

[SteveB]

PTP - Pain in the a*se, ain't it? Sorry to add to your woes, Pete, but just having a condenser mic may not be the end of it. Even with Phantom Power the results can be pretty disappointing, and what you will probably need is a pre-amp. (I know, I know. Others will tell that none of this is needed (and they may be right), this is just my take on the proceedings.

Check out locally the Behringer B1 mic, and the Behringer Tube Ultragain 100 or/the 200 pre amp. I purchased mine new for roughly £120, and once you've got them, you won't go back. anyway, good luck.

[launched]

Does your recorder have a built-in microphone? The Boss BR series have a built-in condenser mic, and I use the built-in mic on my MicroBR exclusively. With the proper positioning, you can get great results.

Yes, the MBR has a wonderful onboard condenser mic, and like Cuth I use it exclusively. But in the group situations you may not be able to use the MBR to your liking.

I recently listened to some great music the other day and asked about how the acoustic was recorded. It was a Harmon AKG Perception 200. They make the 220 now for $175US or less.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/558999-REG/AKG_3101_H_00080_Perception_220_Cardioid_Condenser.html

But anyway, from a listener's perspective I thought it sounded pretty sweet.

And I agree with Steve regarding the preamp - The cheapest you can get that provides phantom power or whatever you can afford. ART makes one for around $30US, and it has great reviews. I've used a comparable Behringer tube type and thought it sounded fine, but nobody seems to like Behringer. I'd get one.


Mark

[Flash Harry]

A personal recorder like the MicroBR does not perform well in this arena (unless you're a viking....)

I bought a good second hand Soundcraft mixer off eBay (£50) and a new Rode NT1-A (£130). The mixer has a very nice preamp and phantom power and the results can be very impressive.

If you are recording a small ensemble, two mics panned left and right would probably be best, although you will have to experiment with placing. Expect some of the ambiance of the venue to be heard.

If you are using a room with a suspended floor,decouple the  mic stands from the floor, stand them on bean bags or cushions or something similar, this helps cut down low-end rumble and means that you don't have to cut the low-end response.

You can still use the MBR as the recording device.

[peterp]

There seems to be some kind of issue with finding Behringer mics locally.
I phoned around to every music store I could locate within a couple of hours drive of me, most list their products but had no stock available.
I found 1 store with a Behringer C3 mic about 1.5 hours south west of me and a store with a Behringer B1 mic about 2 hours east of me.

So I drove to the farther shop for the B1, but when I got there they had it in their display case and could not locate the box/case/shock mount it is supposed to come with.

I ended up picking up a Apex 435 wide diaphragm condenser mic
My mixer has phantom-power and pre-amps built in for each xlr input.
It seems to work very well, almost too well,  it nicely picks up external outdoor noises like lawn mowers if the preamp is turned up too much.

The shop I went to was one of the big music chain stores and the fellow manning the recording department had put together a mic demo on their pro-tools DAW of about 60 mics. The same vocal passage spoken into each mic using all the same audio path.
It was quite enlightening. I got to listen to sound samples from the very inexpensive mics to the upper end high priced Newman's. While there are obvious differences in the sound captured by the mics, they are not all that different from each other.

[Dmann]

The shop I went to was one of the big music chain stores and the fellow manning the recording department had put together a mic demo on their pro-tools DAW of about 60 mics. The same vocal passage spoken into each mic using all the same audio path.
It was quite enlightening. I got to listen to sound samples from the very inexpensive mics to the upper end high priced Newman's. While there are obvious differences in the sound captured by the mics, they are not all that different from each other.

I found this to be true as well. Funny thing is, the salesmen will still try to sell you the more/most expsensive one they have claiming to sound a million times better... Honestly though in my experience, the room you are playing in, how/where you set up the mic's and the processing of the signal is way more important to the recorded sound then the price or type of mic.

 I have actually found the MicroBR's built in mic to be excellent. When you tried "sitting around it in a circle," did you have it sitting on like a stool or something so it is instrument level and off the floor? How high was the ceiling in the room you tried it in? I found it works best also to try to capture the live recording as clean as possible without clipping. so lower the sensetivity and use the limiter only patch, and then master the tracks in a DAW afterwards to EQ/level.

[peterp]

That first attempt was in a acoustically live room,
lot of large reflective surfaces and the ceiling was slanted from 12 to about 15 feet high.
Not the best of places to try this. Yes the recorders (both mbr and br600) were on a bar type stool.

Will try that limiter patch (need to look that up in  the manual  ) on the next try.

[Gu Djin]

Although not a direct answer your question - I did notice you had disappointing results using the internal mic etc.  I use several means to get the sounds I like - not using an MBR I will not go into them here.  But I will say I get an acoustic sound that is very acceptable to me - using a Seymour Duncan "Woody" pickup that clips into the soundhole - it works well on my Walden and a cheapo 12 string.  I find making the mic emulations choice with the software an important factor as well. 

Example of basic sound from the Walden acoustic and the "Woody" soundhole magnetic pickup through a Line 6 Toneport UX2 Bright and Clean setting for mic's:

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=8250620

And a sample of the 12 string recorded the same way but with added processing from a new song I'm working on.

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=9531749