New BR model - the BR-800

[cuthbert]

I second that - great executive summary of the features of the BR-800! Many thanks for writing this up, 64G. 

I know I shall be referring back to your analysis when I get closer to making a decision about whether to buy one.

cheers,
cuth

[64Guitars]

Maybe when recording into a DAW to separate the rhythm tracks in the BR out so the rhythm tracks in the DAW can be used instead (i.e., only the input signals go into the DAW)

It's my understanding that the audio from the BR-800 is sent to the computer over the USB connection, so there'd be no need to connect the BR's Line Out to the computer's sound card inputs. Anyway, if you didn't want the rhythm track to be sent to the computer, all you'd have to do is lower the Rhythm fader. But you're probably right that it's something to do with using a DAW on the computer. I just can't imagine exactly what that would be at this point. Maybe when more documentation becomes available, like the SONAR documentation from the DVD-ROM, I'll be able to figure out the reason for splitting the output.

This might work for me, in the sense that I can now route the inputs and Effects to the Line Out and the Rhythm to the headphones - if they can be used simultaneously, I can then process the Rhythm track (or send it to the Aux In) independently of the guitar/vocals....

I put the BR-800 back on order to check it out (but I'm sure not going to gig with it until I make a decision)...

Yes, it sounds like that might work. When you try it, I'd recommend that you start with the Phones Level turned down in case the output level is too high for the device you're connecting to. Then gradually increase the Phones Level to a reasonable value. Once you get to know what that value is, you can just set it to that ahead of time.

If it works, you might want to consider running the drums into one of these:

Musician's Friend - $49.99

Looks like a nice little stereo equalizer for only $50.

And these guys have it on sale for $39.99...

http://universelcd.com/behringerfbq800ultra-compact9-bandgraphicequalizerwithfbq-fbq800.aspx

I don't know anything about this company. But, if you didn't want to deal with them, I'm sure you could get someone else to price-match them.

[64Guitars]

Wonder what the touted DR-880 "Hi Quality" drum machine implementation on the BR-800 is all about.  I already have many, many quality samples.....

It probably just means that the BR-800's drum samples are the same as some of the samples used in the DR-880. There are 440 drum samples in the DR-880, so the BR-800 obviously includes only a small fraction of them. Although, we don't yet know what's on the DVD-ROM which comes with the BR-800. Perhaps it has more drum samples which can be loaded into drum kits with the BR Rhythm Editor.

Speaking of drum kits, I'm disappointed to learn that the toneload feature is still limited to 13 seconds total for each drum kit. You've mentioned that you use the toneload feature a lot. Have you found the 13-second limit to be a problem?

[BuleriaChk]

I haven't found the time to be a limitation so far, but then my samples are very percussive....

I am so disappointed in the lack of a decent update to the rhythm implementation for live performance.  Of course, what I'd really like is a drum machine with sliders for each of the voices, that included guitar effects, and the ability to load our own tones....  Plus pattern play... and a computer interface with the sliders doing double duty for mixdown.  AND a dedicated knob for tempo control in live performance.....

That said, it does look like I can record plugged in and through the mics at the same time....

Roland is slowly getting it right (faster than any of the others, for sure), but I sure wish I could talk to the guy who makes their design decisions.....

I'm going to audition the BR-800, but I'm not real encouraged about it......

[BuleriaChk]

I just discovered there IS a volume (velocity) adjustment for the sounds after RTFM (Editor Program) .. Duh!
Just hold my mouse over the note until I get an up/down arrow and use the wheel.  It also works in the current editor....  

Adjustment is not exact, but close enough for gov't work.  Not sure if there is a way to do it simultaneously for all notes in a given voice, but I guess I can always drag/drop an adjusted note over.....

If this is true, then the Midi velocity in pattterns can be edited in a standard DAW and imported into the BR series.....

[dasilvasings]

64, thanks a lot for the the review.

Less editing is a PITN. I second Geir, that BRs are supposed to be standalones
I'm worried with input sensitivity - I always have problems with the bass volume, and the controller is my failsafe
Unfortunately undo is another function I use a lot...

I think I'll buy it neverthless, but I was more enthusiastic some weeks ago.

[64Guitars]

I just discovered there IS a volume (velocity) adjustment for the sounds after RTFM (Editor Program) .. Duh!
Just hold my mouse over the note until I get an up/down arrow and use the wheel.  It also works in the current editor....  

Adjustment is not exact, but close enough for gov't work.  Not sure if there is a way to do it simultaneously for all notes in a given voice, but I guess I can always drag/drop an adjusted note over.....

If this is true, then the Midi velocity in pattterns can be edited in a standard DAW and imported into the BR series.....

Yes, you can definitely set the velocity for individual notes in a pattern. I didn't think that was what you wanted. I thought you wanted to set the relative levels of the drums and cymbals in a drum kit, which isn't possible as far as I know.

You can change the velocity of notes in a pattern using the BR Rhythm Editor, as you described, or right in the BR-600/864/900. Just select the note in the pattern (step mode) and move the track 1 fader to adjust the velocity of the selected note.

In the BR Rhythm Editor, you can also enter velocity values directly by selecting a note then clicking in the velocity box at the top-right of the pattern area. A white edit box will appear containing the current value. Click in this edit box to get a cursor, then type in whatever value you want.

Unfortunately, there's no way to select multiple notes so you have to edit one note at a time. But it does remember the velocity of the last note you entered. So a quick way to change a series of notes to the same velocity is to delete the note then double-click to re-create it at the current velocity setting.

A trick you can use to copy the velocity of an existing note is to select the note, then scroll the mouse wheel one click back to change the value, then one click forward to restore it. Now any subsequent notes you enter will have that velocity.

Also, when changing values with the mouse wheel, you can scroll through a wide range of values (from 127 to 1, for example) much faster by holding down the shift key while you turn the mouse wheel. Why would you want to go from 127 to 1? Well, one reason would be to simulate a cymbal choke. Enter a cymbal note with a velocity of, say, 100. Then enter another cymbal note to the right of it. Its value will also be 100 because it defaults to the velocity of the last note entered. To simulate a cymbal choke, you want to set the velocity of the second note to 1 which effectively halts the previous cymbal note. So, hold down the shift key and turn the mouse wheel to quickly scroll from 100 to 1.

You can also change the velocity of pattern notes using the midi sequencer of your favourite DAW. When you import the midi file into a BR pattern, it will use the velocities from the midi file.

[64Guitars]

I'm worried with input sensitivity - I always have problems with the bass volume, and the controller is my failsafe

I'm sure the guitar/bass input sensitivity will be fine for most guitars and basses with conventional magnetic pickups. Roland will have designed it to accept those signals without clipping. My concern is for guitars with very hot pickups or preamps (active pickups and piezos). At full volume, they may produce a signal level that's too high for the guitar/bass input, resulting in clipping. With no input sensitivity control, you'd have to turn down the volume on the guitar to eliminate the clipping. But that could affect its tone slightly.

The BR-800 has input sensitivity controls and peak indicators for the four mic inputs and the internal mics, but none for the guitar/bass, line, and usb inputs.

Unfortunately undo is another function I use a lot...

The BR-800 still has an Undo/Redo feature. It's just that it's in a menu instead of having a dedicated Undo/Redo button like the BR-600/864/900. The Micro BR's Undo/Redo is also in a menu like the BR-800's.

[BuleriaChk]

SDHC cards

http://www.roland.com/products/en/_support/faq.cfm?PRODUCT=BR%2D800&iRcId=38508037&dsp=1

Wonder if speed makes any difference?

[BuleriaChk]

• Output can be split, with the tracks going to Line Out and only the Rhythm going to the Headphones. I'm not sure what the purpose of this is. The manual says "This is convenient when you want to play back the sound of the tracks from LINE OUT jacks while monitoring the sound of only the rhythm in your headphones." But why would you want to do that?
  
  

I think maybe this will be useful to me to be able to process the overall Rhythm output in live performance with outboard equipment (e.g. EQ on a mixer channel) ....

Another reason is to monitor the rhythm while recording thru a speaker into the mics or DAW, so it doesn't pick up the rhythm sound (for later editing, so you can use the rhythm track as a reference)  Not sure this makes sense, though, but I'll be clearer when I get the BR-800.