Panning & Mastering

[evyn]

Hi all,

What I'd like to be able to do is create a final mix of a guitar demo where the left channel is panned all the way to the left and the right all the way to the right.

So, what I did was:

1) Record the guitar on track 1.
2) Copy track 1 to track 2
3) Mastered this to 34V1 as a reference
4) Saved it as a song.

Listening to it, its what I expected. I can hear the guitar right down the centre.

So then...

5) I panned the T1 to L50
6) T2 to R50

This sounded good, so

7) Mastered this to 34V2
Saved it as a song.

Excepting now it sounded exactly like the first song. I hear no difference.

So is there a problem? Have I done something wrong? Or is it time for an ear-upgrade? 

Thanks for your time.

Evyn

[SteveG]

By your description you have done it right, are you sure that is what you actually did? I suggest trying it again and double checking every step, unless I am being even more dense than usual that should have worked fine.

[64Guitars]

If track 2 is identical to track 1 (you said you copied track 1 to track 2), then the mix will be mono whether you pan the tracks L50/R50 or C00. Either way, both channels of the mix will contain exactly the same signal. To get stereo, the information in the left channel of the mix has to be different than the right channel information. For example, you could time shift one channel slightly to produce a slight delay. Or use one of the BR's stereo effects (Tap Delay or Auto Pan) while recording the guitar track to a pair of tracks.

If you only want to have your one guitar track play from both channels in the mix, just pan it to C00. There's no need to copy the track unless you plan to modify it in some way.

[SteveG]

I think what he wanted to do was double the part, panned left and right, rather than create true stereo ... of course I could have misunderstood, I am good at that

[64Guitars]

Yes, but doubling it without changing it, and panning it left and right will produce exactly the same result as just taking the one track and panning it to the centre. In both cases, the left channel of the mix will be identical to the right channel.

[evyn]

SteveG has t right, thanks.

OK, when I did this many years ago on a tascam tape-based 4-track, when I took the same guitar recording and panned it hard left and right on two channels it sounded better, "fuller", than when I left it C00.

Thanks.

[SteveG]

That's what I thought. I do it often, thickens the sound, especially if you very slightly offset one side, delay or move it in a DAW. Also does not interfere with the centre track.

[evyn]

I moved T2 1 frame up, and I got the exact sound I was looking for.

Thanks, the forum was right.

But why are you right?  Why can I not pan two separate tracks without the slight time difference?

Or am I being dense?
 

[Ferryman_1957]

Because if it is exactly the same track, you ears/brain will not be able to detect any stereo image (difference between the L&R). So yes, you can phaysically pan the same track copied on to two tracks L&R but it's not stereo. You are just making a mono recording. If you want to hear stereo, you must have slightly different things on the two tracks.

If you are just trying to "thicken" the sound, then EQ or chorus could do that.

Cheers,

Nigel

[launched]

...2) Copy track 1 to track 2...

You are basically copying the exact same thing to another track. There has to be some sort of difference in each track for your ears to pick it up. If you were previously doing this with tape before by bouncing to another track, the mechanical imperfections of that operation would be audibly noticed in the copied track. Digital copying is 100% perfect - Aside from db variation, there won't be anything to hear.

Obviously, copying and delaying a digital track sounds great, but it will definitely not be better than doubletracking, the source of all this mumbo jumbo. Taking the extra time to record two separate takes and slightly pan them is pure ear candy, because it is humanly impossible to play or sing the exact same thing twice. Another great thing about doubletracking is that the procedure sometimes picks up natural tremolo and phasing effects, especially if you change the tone of the second track. I imagine tape would be even better, but it's a digital world now...

Well that's my take on it anyway!!

See you around,

Mark

PS - While I was hacking this out, I saw that Nigel posted the same thing, only with less words. I'm a rambler...