Song protection (plagiarism)

[cuthbert]

At the risk of re-hijacking the thread, nobody will ever convince me that Sting did not catch a gig by these guys before forming the Police .... second song, starts about 2.45

I say "Da-a-ay--o!".

[Facemask93]

You probably won't agree either. I just don't like Sting getting away with it  Cheesy

I agree 100% , never thought about it before Tim , it fit's perfect

Facemask93

[Bosko Schwartz]

I've had a bee in my bonnet about this since the eighties. The worst thing is that nobody believes or agrees with me (EVER!!!!). I figured it was because most people aren't 'musical' and don't have the right ear for song structures etc.

But I'm absolutely convinced that Sting / The Police absolutely ripped the buggery out of this Leo Sayer tune for 'Every Breath You Take'. They were clever about not making it obvious though. Listen to the structure though, and the middle 8....

You probably won't agree either. I just don't like Sting getting away with it 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdnEmg8RX8w

'LOVE YOU MORE THAN I CAN SAY' LEO SAYER (look it up on Youtube if the player won't work)

What's with all the Sting haters?  I hear the similarities in the chord progression here, definitely, and in the basic tempo and feeling, but not in the singing melody, nor the lyrics.  And I think the melody that is sung over a chord progression is possibly the most important part of a song.  I mean, these two songs have practically identical structures, and yet one is pretty damned lame (Sayer's) and the other is a pretty good song (not one of their best, but still good).  The difference?  For various reasons, one is very forgettable and the other is very memorable.  When you think about it, they almost sound nothing alike, simply because of the shittiness of the Sayer song.

I think there are only so many chord progressions to go around when dealing with basic pop/rock music, and when people are educated about music (which I believe ol' Gordon is), they tend to know what chords are "supposed" to go with each other to form a nice little cohesive structure.  This is actually one of the reasons I don't mind NOT knowing music theory.  I don't want to know what notes or chords are "supposed" to go with each other or why.  I trust my ear to find chords that fit well with each other.  I don't want to find myself writing cookie-cutter songs.  Speaking of, what about nearly all of the rock 'n' roll and/or doo-wop songs of the 50s?  There were only maybe 5 or 6 -- if that -- starkly different chord progressions/song structures that were used over and over, with only very slight variations -- if any -- between each different song.  Therefore, hundreds, maybe thousands, of songs had the exact same chord progressions as one another, yet no one screamed plagiarism.  Each artist found a way to make their songs sound unique, but most of the differences between songs simply came from the singing -- the voices themselves, style of singing, and melody sung.  And that, coincidentally, is also the major difference between "Love You more than I can Say" and "Every Breath You Take."

My biggest disappointment so far though was this - Great song but it crushed me when I realized what I was hearing:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1oyfG6t2ew

Anyway...

Mark

Now, Killing Joke's "Eighties" and Nirvana's "Come as You Are" -- now, that's an entirely different story.  That's a pretty original riff in the KJ song and there's almost no way Cobain didn't rip it off.  However, because of the other differences -- such as singing style and melody, tempo, etc. -- the songs still sound completely different from one another.  They are both great songs, and in Cobain's defense, there's a good chance it was subliminally or subconsciously done, much like Harrison's "My Sweet Lord" vs. The Chiffons' "He's so Fine," also referenced by 64G.

To answer Lexman's original question, all you have to do is copyright your material.  The beautiful thing about that is that even if you haven't officially registered the material yet, as long as you post it with the (C) symbol and a year, that shows intent to copyright and your material is protected.  On myspace, I always put a (C) symbol on my posted songs.  Actually, we should all probably be doing this when we post our stuff even here.  I know we all trust each other, but everyone in the world has access to this forum, so it's not just about those of us in our little community who post and comment.

[Geir]

Speaking of, what about nearly all of the rock 'n' roll and/or doo-wop songs of the 50s?  There were only maybe 5 or 6 -- if that -- starkly different chord progressions/song structures that were used over and over, with only very slight variations -- if any -- between each different song. 

And wat about the blues, there's maybe just 2 chord-progressions that get's used ove and over and over and over  ...... even the melodies are recycled ... and to some degree the lyics ........

(yeah yeah all you blueslovers ... I'm exaggerating ..... but I think you get my point ....)

[launched]

To answer Lexman's original question, all you have to do is copyright your material.  The beautiful thing about that is that even if you haven't officially registered the material yet, as long as you post it with the (C) symbol and a year, that shows intent to copyright and your material is protected.  On myspace, I always put a (C) symbol on my posted songs.  Actually, we should all probably be doing this when we post our stuff even here.  I know we all trust each other, but everyone in the world has access to this forum, so it's not just about those of us in our little community who post and comment.

You should definitely be copywriting your stuff. It's awesome! If somebody stole something I did, flattery would take over before anger. The thing is, I don't know how anybody could imitate what you do - It's way too unique. The perpetrator would definitely get caught!!

I'm a fan, so maybe my viewpoint is skewed...

Mark

[Bosko Schwartz]

And wat about the blues, there's maybe just 2 chord-progressions that get's used ove and over and over and over  ...... even the melodies are recycled ... and to some degree the lyics ........

I totally agree, Geir.

To answer Lexman's original question, all you have to do is copyright your material.  The beautiful thing about that is that even if you haven't officially registered the material yet, as long as you post it with the (C) symbol and a year, that shows intent to copyright and your material is protected.  On myspace, I always put a (C) symbol on my posted songs.  Actually, we should all probably be doing this when we post our stuff even here.  I know we all trust each other, but everyone in the world has access to this forum, so it's not just about those of us in our little community who post and comment.

You should definitely be copywriting your stuff. It's awesome! If somebody stole something I did, flattery would take over before anger. The thing is, I don't know how anybody could imitate what you do - It's way too unique. The perpetrator would definitely get caught!!

I'm a fan, so maybe my viewpoint is skewed...

Mark

Aww, Mark, you're just buttering me up.  For what reason, I have no idea.   But THANK YOU for the kind words!

PS: All it takes to be able to do what I do is to have no music theory knowledge, no vocal or instrument training, and to have never taken a music instruction class of any kind!