Oh, Lordy - The V Tracks Are Full!!!!

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I'm just writing this down to see if it makes sense to anybody. And I'm curious to see how others manage their V Tracks and bounces.

The last comp I did was done with two song banks. On the first song bank, I recorded in four track blocks (TR1-4 in each V level). Instead of bouncing two stereo tracks to the next virtual level, I would bounce to one mono track so I could hear the music and then record over that one after three tracks were filled (I could then get the feel from the other three tracks).

The end result on the first song bank was six solid virtual levels of original unbounced tracks. Levels seven and eight were used to bounce these 24 tracks. I needed the eight remaining virtual tracks to end up with the final four bounced tracks (2+2, erase; 2+2 erase, etc.) With a properly documented track sheet, and with this method I can completely rebounce an entire 24 track bank in short order (Under an hour with a 3 1/2 minute song). It's a little extra setup, but now four tracks can be bounced at once while tweaking.

Then I plug the MBR into my PC, and copy the entire song folder back into the flash card, adding one numerical sequence to the folder name. So I have another copy of my song in the MBR now - Complete with patch data and rhythm section, mastering settings, etc.  All track data except for the previous song's final bounce is then erased. The final bounce from the previous song is exchanged to TR1-4 V1. The song is renamed to (Song Name)-2. I can now move forward using this final bounce and have all the programming work from the previous song completely preserved. And then I keep pressing along.

Does this make sense?  The advantage to me is that I can power through a remix with blazing speed and I don't have to store any tracks on the PC.

How does everybody else do it?

Mark

[Diego Ayala]

Holy Crap Mark!  I am having a heck of a time just dealing with 6 tracks, and still not sure how the v tracks come into play - as I keep screwing up my bounces...

I am talking about the br900, but i think it works the same (or close to it) ==>

Say that I have recorded 12_v1, then 3v1, 4v1, and so on - then can I go back to say
1v2 and add to this v track?  The problem I have - is that I cannot get my 12v1 to play back once I go to record into the 1v2...  Man, I am lost!  24 tracks, holy crap!

[launched]

The problem I have - is that I cannot get my 12v1 to play back once I go to record into the 1v2... 

Hey Diego! You are so close, and I'd love to try and get you there. Here's what you need to start with (Even though you have a 900, it should be similar). We may not make it this time, but eventually it will come together - Bouncing with a BR is a hard hurdle to jump over.

First things first:

1. You need to know how to select your virtual tracks to play back. This is a problem I have with Boss and other companies - A virtual track is a track that is just stored away and not selected to play back. The ones that are selected to play back are real tracks. Your unit will play back 8 at once, I think. But to confuse us mortals they call all of them virtual tracks. Confusing, but the tracks that can't be played back do you no good. So if you have tracks 1-8V1 selected to play, you will not hear anything from v2,3,4,5, etc.

2. You need to know how to change to bounce mode. I'm assuming your unit bounces to at most a stereo pair (12v2, for example). Knowing where your bounce is going is critical.

Test with this scenario:

1. Create a new test song and record into 1V1 2V1 and 3V1.
2. Switch to bounce mode.
3. Select the bounce location to 12V2.
4. Make sure the song is rewound and press play/record to record the bounce into 12V2.
5. Select playback for your 8 tracks to 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8V2
6. Tracks 1 and 2 should have the three tracks you played  in V1 all mixed together. You can then record on tracks 4-8 to play back with your bounce.

I really want to help you bud - If you have questions just keep 'em coming. And if anybody has a better way of explaining it, please chime in.

Mark

[Ferryman_1957]

Sounds clever and organised Mark. When I run out of V-tracks I just back everything up to the PC and start deleting earlier bounces to free up space. I keep notes on the track sheet and if I want to go back I just reload from the PC back up and start the process again.

Cheers,

Nigel

[64Guitars]

Does this make sense?  The advantage to me is that I can power through a remix with blazing speed and I don't have to store any tracks on the PC.

I don't see any advantage, but I do see some disadvantages. Your method requires more bouncing than the normal method which was described quite well by hooper in this message. And you're only monitoring a partial mix of 3 or 4 tracks while you're recording. With the method described by hooper, you can monitor a stereo mix of all of the previously recorded tracks as you record each new track.

You can record up to 16 individual tracks per song using hooper's method, without erasing any previously recorded tracks or sub-mixes. That way, you can always go back and remix, if necessary. If you need to record more than 16 tracks, you can continue in a new song without needing a PC by using the following method:

• Make a copy of the song using the Song Copy function (page 58). Of course, this requires that your card has enough free space to hold a full copy of the song.
• If you followed the method described by hooper in creating the first 16 tracks, your last mix should be in Tr1v8 and Tr2v8. You could leave them there but it will probably be more convenient to move them to Tr1v1 and Tr1v2 using Track Exchange (page 57).
• Erase the remaining 30 tracks using Track Erase (page 56 and 57).
• Perform a Song Optimize (page 59).

You can now continue with the method described by hooper, recording up to 14 more tracks without erasing any previous tracks or sub-mixes. So, your final mix on Song 2 will include 30 tracks. If you still want more, repeat the above procedure to create a third copy of the song and continue recording up to 14 more tracks.

[launched]

I am reading your post, but remember that I am getting 24 tracks per song bank instead of a mere 16. I did use two song setups like I said in my post. That way I can keep 1/2 the song (Or less if I use three song banks next time). I just copy the folder over and erase everything but the final bounce from the previous song. I read Hooper's post and from his insight I was able to get to this level. Song optimize is really not an issue here unless you need more space.

Either way, I get 24 tracks instead of 16 per song. I was asking around to see if I could get more efficiency by being able to get more than 24 tracks per song bank. I just did the math and can't find a way to bounce the 24 without having less than 8 free tracks available.

Plus I can now bounce four tracks at a time using this method - It's a pain to start with, but really speeds things up when a remix is needed.

I am reading through Hooper's and your other documentation to see if I missed something. It's just this way, there are zero bounces in the end to erase or worry about per song bank.

Thanks 64,

Mark

[64Guitars]

I am having a heck of a time just dealing with 6 tracks, and still not sure how the v tracks come into play - as I keep screwing up my bounces...

I am talking about the br900, but i think it works the same (or close to it) ==>

Why only six? On the BR-900, you can record up to 8 tracks before you need to bounce. There's no need to reserve 2 tracks for bouncing or mastering, if that's what you were thinking.

Say that I have recorded 12_v1, then 3v1, 4v1, and so on - then can I go back to say 1v2 and add to this v track?  The problem I have - is that I cannot get my 12v1 to play back once I go to record into the 1v2...  Man, I am lost!  24 tracks, holy crap!

The idea is to record sub-mixes for the purpose of monitoring. For example, you can record your first 8 tracks on v1, then bounce the stereo mix of those 8 tracks to Tr1v2 and Tr2v2. The BR will automatically set all the tracks to v2 after the bounce. When you press Play, you'll hear the stereo mix from Tr1v2 and Tr2v2, and nothing from the remaining tracks because they are empty. Your previous tracks are still on v1 but v2 is selected now and they are all empty except Tr1 and Tr2.  So, you can now record six new tracks while monitoring the mix of your previous 8 tracks from Tr1v2 and Tr2v2. Then you can bounce those 8 tracks (the 6 new ones plus the mix from Tr1v2 and Tr2v2) to Tr1v3 and Tr2v3. The bounce will set all 8 tracks to v3, and you can record 6 more tracks on Tr3v3 through Tr8v3. And so on.

It's the same procedure that hooper described for the Micro BR here, except that you don't have to bounce as often because you have 8 tracks available at a time on the BR-900 instead of just 4. So, you record 8 tracks then bounce, record 6 more then bounce, and so on.

For more on bouncing, see this page:

https://songcrafters.org/64guitars/BR/Tutorials/V-Tracks_and_Bouncing.html

[64Guitars]

I am reading your post, but remember that I am getting 24 tracks per song bank instead of a mere 16.

That's because you're reusing the tracks from your sub-mixes. If we modified hooper's method to reuse the tracks from the sub-mixes, we'd get 28 individual tracks per song and still be able to monitor a full stereo mix of all of the previously recorded tracks at each step. That's fine if you're planning to do your final mix on the computer. But, if you're going to do your final mix on the BR, I'd recommend keeping all of the sub-mixes, as it allows you to remix some of the tracks without having to remix all of the other tracks too.

Plus I can now bounce four tracks at a time using this method

You can bounce four tracks at a time with any method. In fact, it's impossible to not bounce four tracks at a time. In Bounce Mode, the four currently selected v-tracks are recorded to the specified pair of destination v-tracks. You could set one or more of the 4 tracks to empty v-tracks, or reduce their levels to minimum so that they're not heard in the mix, but the four currently selected tracks are still connected to the four input channels of the mixer section and the stereo mix of those four channels will be recorded to the destination v-track pair.

[launched]

I am reading your post, but remember that I am getting 24 tracks per song bank instead of a mere 16.

That's because you're reusing the tracks from your sub-mixes.

I'm not reusing anything - All 24 tracks are original unbounced tracks

Plus I can now bounce four tracks at a time using this method

You can bounce four tracks at a time with any method. In fact, it's impossible to not bounce four tracks at a time.


I understand that - I'm doing four part vocal harmonies at a bounce now instead of two at a time...


I am bouncing four tracks at a time that have never been bounced before. When I am done with my song bank, I don't want any bounce data because if I ever went back to the song I would probably remix anyway. Being able to rebounce four original tracks at a time is a huge time saver. I just don't see how you can get more than 24 original tracks on a song bank and still be able to at least one stereo mix. Please help if that is possible.

Sorry about the font/quote errors - I'm bad at this stuff.

Thanks,

Mark

[64Guitars]

I'm not reusing anything - All 24 tracks are original unbounced tracks

In your first message, you said:

Instead of bouncing two stereo tracks to the next virtual level, I would bounce to one mono track so I could hear the music and then record over that one after three tracks were filled (I could then get the feel from the other three tracks).

So...

You bounced to a mono track...   that's a sub-mix
You then recorded over the mono track...   that's reusing the sub-mix

I just don't see how you can get more than 24 original tracks on a song bank and still be able to at least one stereo mix. Please help if that is possible.

If you don't want to keep your sub-mixes (for example, if you plan to do the final mix on your computer), then here's what I'd recommend:

• Record your first four tracks (v1) and bounce them to Tr1v2 and Tr2v2.
• While monitoring the stereo mix from Tr1v2/Tr2v2, record two more tracks on Tr3v2 and Tr4v2.
• Bounce the mix plus the two new tracks (Tr1v2, Tr2v2, Tr3v2, Tr4v2) to Tr3v3 and Tr4v3.
• Set the v-tracks to V2 V2 V3 V3 and record two new tracks on Tr1v2 and Tr2v2 (overwriting the first sub-mix) while monitoring the most recent sub-mix from Tr3v3/Tr4v3.
• Bounce the mix plus the two new tracks (Tr1v2, Tr2v2, Tr3v3, Tr4v3) to Tr1v3/Tr2v3.
• Set the v-tracks to V3 V3 V3 V3 and record two new tracks on Tr3v3 and Tr4v3 (overwriting the 2nd sub-mix) while monitoring the most recent sub-mix from Tr1v3/Tr2v3.
• Bounce the mix plus the two new tracks (Tr1v3, Tr2v3, Tr3v3, Tr4v3) to Tr3v4/Tr4v4.
• Set the v-tracks to V3 V3 V4 V4 and record two new tracks on Tr1v3 and Tr2v3 (overwriting the 3rd sub-mix) while monitoring the most recent sub-mix from Tr3v4/Tr4v4.
• Bounce the mix plus the two new tracks (Tr1v3, Tr2v3, Tr3v4, Tr4v4) to Tr1v4/Tr2v4.
• Set the v-tracks to V4 V4 V4 V4 and record two new tracks on Tr3v4 and Tr4v4 (overwriting the 4th sub-mix) while monitoring the most recent sub-mix from Tr1v4/Tr2v4.

Here's what we have so far:

Track:	1	2	3	4
v1	■	■	■	■
v2	■	■	■	■
v3	■	■	■	■
v4	sm	sm	■	■
v5	□	□	□	□
v6	□	□	□	□
v7	□	□	□	□
v8	□	□	□	□

If you continue recording using the same strategy, you'll eventually end up with this:

Track:	1	2	3	4
v1	■	■	■	■
v2	■	■	■	■
v3	■	■	■	■
v4	■	■	■	■
v5	■	■	■	■
v6	■	■	■	■
v7	■	■	■	■
v8	sm	sm	□	□

So, we have 28 individual tracks and one stereo mix of all 28 tracks. We also have two empty tracks we could record in, but then we'd have nowhere left to bounce them without overwriting something. So, it's time to copy the song and erase everything except the mix, then continue adding more tracks the same way.