Bluesberrys new toy (vocal harmony stompbox)

[The Reverend 48]

First of all great new toy BB it is a great addition to your arsenal of tools....
Regarding purity...the minute we add something as basic as the humble reverb to a track the arguement about pure recording is lost...where would any of us be without using technology to help enhance our work...as long as it is not someone else we are using to sing/play and masquarding as our own work...in my view everything else is be encouraged.....

[AndyR]

I haven't managed to hear it yet (nor much else, actually) because I can't listen at work and I've been too busy at home, but I'm well interested in hearing this.

I'm quite comfortable with tools like this. If it gets the job done, then it's cool in my book. Brian May's "Back to the Light" album uses a harmoniser quite a bit for vocals and guitars, I suspect that the last Queen album "Innuendo" probably uses it in places (maybe some of the previous ones as well? I'd have to listen again).

On the pitch correction thing - it was in use live years ago. Back in 83/84 I was talking to guys at the mixing desk for a Gary Glitter gig (we were working on the get-in and get-out for the venue). We noticed they had several Roland Space Echoes and commented on it. They explained that at least one of them was used for double-tracking and... pitch correction... It may have needed another unit as well, but I think the SE did it all. Anyway, they explained that they progressively added more pitch correction during the gig because GG sang flatter as he got tired. They also pointed out it wasn't just GG, most live sound engineers would use it if required.

Sure enough, next gig (Judie Tzuke, I think) we spotted the Space Echoes and asked the sound engineer - he was "what!!?? how do you know about that? keep it under your hat mate - she doesn't know we do it..."

In the studio, I personally don't really know what pitch correction sounds like, but apparently it puts a signature "sound" onto the vocal, especially when it has to be used heavily. This has been going on 10-20 years at least now, and it has had the same effect on singers as drum-machines did on drummers: young people grow up listening to it thinking that's how you're meant to sing/drum, so that's how they learn to sing/drum.

With drummers, anyone growing up listening to music after the late 70s early 80s will drum with a more "automatic" feel unless they put a lot of effort into learning "loose" etc.

With singers, I understand it's generated that modern girlie-soul-singer sound that even 8 year-olds seem to do nowadays. Don't quote me about this particular vocal style, though, I just guessed that's the style involved - like I said, I've never knowingly heard heavily pitch-corrected... I always assumed they meant to sing like that!!

[Greeny]

That's a very interesting and insightful post, Andy. It seems fair to say that pretty much everything ever put on a record will have used some kind of effect (or whole bag of them) to enhance the sound, cover up a vocalist's shortcomings, or both. Sam Phillip's famous 'slapback' delay is a good, early example of that. And what about Phil Spectors 'wall of sound'... that's just a shitload of layering and delay and reverb to make a certain soundscape. Even the Robert Johnson technique of singing into the corner (as mentioned in an earlier post) would qualify as a kind of enhancement. Musicians have always looked for ways to go further than their natural, raw sound allows. Hendrix isn't playing clean tones on a guitar, and that's not John Lennon's natural voice on 'Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds'. It's been going on forever.

But, as you say, there's a whole generation listening now to artificial vocals and actually TRYING to sing like that. You can hear them making their voices warble in vocoder-like way. The whole R&B genre seems filled with pitch-corrected, computer-enhanced vocals. In fact, it seems to be a desirable feature to sound as if it's not a real person singing (although ELO used a vocoder on Mr Blue Sky to great effect many years ago...).

For me, it depends how you use the technology. If it's just an enhancement to music you've written and performed 'organically', it's fine with me. I've got no qualms about using Audacity if I need to do something specific with a song, because I know the music is totally mine, recorded honestly, and would probably stand-up for scrutiny even if it was just me and my guitar in a pub.

Thankfully there's nobody on this forum that relies totally on technology and effects...

[launched]

I think it's great that people use every trick they have to get their own unique, individual sound, and hat's off - I love it!!

And there are a lot others, like me, that use the following only:

1. BR Unit (I use an MBR)
2. Guitar/Bass
3. Cable.

And that is the cat's ass in my opinion. Not just an MBR purist, but a BR purist. I had used a wah pedal a couple times, but stopped a few recordings ago probably more due to laziness than anything

I just finally realized that I want to play guitar/sing/produce better, and it seems the less distractions I have, the more I learn and the better I get. I guess I just feel fortunate to have what I have...

 

[guitarron]

Just Listened to Your Track Again...

You Didn't use any Pitch Correction/changers like the Guy in the First Video...

It was All you, Just Doubled up....

Well done BB!

These Gizmos seem like a Time saving device....
Would be cool Live........

gets rid of those pesky extra singers-lol

That's a cool gizmo, BB. And it definitely sounded 'organic' enough to pass muster on here. I'm not sure I'd go down this route myself, as I have very specific ideas about harmonies (usually). That's just me though.

I don't know how this technology works, but it definitely does. It'll add a whole new dimension to your sound. Already has by the sounds of it 

Does it have a 'Beach Boys' auto setting? Lol. That would be good!

those that can sing dont need it for multi tracking anyway-lol

BB =-i never would have known-and who cares
purists be damned-you still created the music-thats what counts

our lead sing would use one of the digitech model when i was playing covers-we had 4 good singers in the band (plus me)
but it would be helpful on some tunes-even with a glut of capable singers

i love technology when it works simply and properly

I feel a GAS attack coming on
Ron

[guitarron]

btw-does that pedal work only on vox
can it be used as a guitar harmonizer?
TC makes really good stuff

[launched]

BB =-i never would have known-and who cares
purists be damned-you still created the music-thats what counts

I feel the same way - love those songs, too!! (Please don't damn me  )

[Bluesberry]

BB =-i never would have known-and who cares
purists be damned-you still created the music-thats what counts

I feel the same way - love those songs, too!! (Please don't damn me  )

Cool, thats what I was trying to figure out, if anybody would notice or spot that the harmonies were done with an effect-box.  I thought for sure somebody would say they felt they were slightly artifical sounding (because when I tried to make harmonies using my BR-1200 they did sound slightly artificial sounding, I had to mix them really low in the mix).  I was shocked (pleasantly) when nobody could tell, I was basically testing out my new purchase on those two songs.  If I had said what I used, it would not have worked, everybody would have heard it differantly.  It passed the test, the harmonies sounded pretty darn good.  And those two Band posts I put up sound really good to my ears because of the excellent harmonies I was able to add, it lifted them to the moon.  Without the effect I would never have been able to add such lush and tight sounding harmonies, I just am not a good enough singer to pull that off.  It is like Ron says, if you are a really good singer, one of these may not interest you, if you are average at best (like me), this thing is a wonder box that will enhance some of my songs in the future.  But at the end of the day, I still have to play my guitar and sing in key (at the same time) for this to work, it is not really cheating, it just means that I don't have to hire back-up singers everytime I want to add harmony to my songs.

Ron, It only works on voice from what I understand, well the input is from a dynamic mic input, so it may work on other sound sources recorded with a mic, I never tried.

[OsCKilO]

This is a cool thread.....

I have found some boobs for the occassion.....




Robot boobs!!!!



I must admit......I feel better about using effects in the future after this thread......

[Davo]

Very cool.  A nice harmony over the lead vocal is great then the sum of their parts.