"Birth of the Sun" by The Stan Laurels (Two Mixes: One With Drums, One Without)

[Bosko Schwartz]

Thanks, Tharek!   You know I always appreciate your listens and comments!  I will need to listen to "Tears of the Sun," just to make sure there was no plagiarism going on there!  Kidding of course.   Perfect -- HA!  I appreciate it, but not even close!  But I will continue to strive for it; you know me!

Thanks so much, Greeny!   I always appreciate how much time and effort you put into your reviews.  And any praise from you means A LOT to me.  You were right on about the vocals.  It's hard for me NOT to have a dreamy, psychedelic vocal sound because that's what appeals to me the most, and I guess it seems to fit my voice and singing style as well.  I won't be "lushing" up the BG vox, but probably just using an effect that makes them a tad more clear.  Wow ... "Strawberry Fields," Piper at the Gates of Dawn, Syd Barrett ... maybe this isn't my most "mainstream" sounding song after all!  I don't quite hear all of those comparisons, but I will certainly take those compliments!   They are definitely influences, so maybe it came through subconsciously.  No worries about the lack of production tips.  It's not like I enjoy re-mixing the hell out of my music.  The best thing anyone can say -- as long as they are being honest, that is -- is that it sounds right the way it is.  Thanks again!

SteveB, thank you!  Wow, I need to get this crazy War of the Worlds album you keep referencing -- I've never heard it myself.  "Flawless?"  Wow, I can't thank you enough for that compliment!   How interesting that you ask if I've thought of doing a mix without drums.  Interesting for three reasons: 1, because everyone seems to love the drums so much.  2, because, as I mentioned while responding to Mark (launched), I really struggled with the mix of the drums in this song early on -- it's one of the main reasons I put it on the shelf for a year and a half.  The third reason is because not only have I thought of doing a mix without drums -- get this -- I have already done one!  At one point, I just felt the drums were too much of a driving force for the song and I thought maybe it needed to be a lot more mellow.  I will post this old version just for you.  It gives the song an entirely different feel.  For the album, I will definitely be going with the one with drums, but I just find it odd that you heard the same thing I heard with the possibility of no drums!

BB, yes, Greeny hit the nail on the head.  As with just about all of my songs, I am almost always going for a sort of dreamy and psychedelic vibe in the vox.  Wow, if this song has even 1/100th of a percent of the quality of any of the three Lennon songs you mentioned, I'm in heaven.  For future reference: to say anything of mine is even remotely "Lennon-dreamscape-sounding," this is just about the ultimate compliment, in my book!  THANK YOU, BB!!!

THANK YOU, 48!  Wow, and now a Sgt. Pepper comparison!  Keep 'em comin', guys!  Just kidding.   Seriously, though, thank you so much, as any kind words from the noble 48 mean the world to me.  Thank you, sir!

Thanks, Flash!  You typed more than just "Fuckin' Ace" this time, so what can I say?  You have taken the time to listen and comment and I could not appreciate it more.   I guess the fact that I started off as "just" a drummer has its advantages.  I'm certainly no Bill Bruford, but I guess once in a while I have my moments.   I will in fact take your suggestion and add a bit of delay to the lead vox -- nay, I am lying -- I already did this today!  Sounds good, too.  I do usually have delay on my vox, so why should this song be any different?  Great idea!  Thanks again, Mike!

Awesome, Nigel -- as I mentioned to Mike, I have already re-mixed this and I now feel it's album-ready.  I wouldn't worry, as I feel the bottom end is every bit as present -- if not more so -- in the final mix as in this one.  Thanks again!

Thanks, guitarron!  Any compliment on the vox is always appreciated.  Although I am getting more comfortable (thanks to these types of comments), I still often feel unworthy as a vocalist.  Thank you!

Thank you for the kind words, Diego!  I am no flutist -- as I said, this was done on a synthesizer, but I'd still be honored to help once work on my album is finished!

THANKS AGAIN TO EVERYONE WHO TOOK THE TIME TO LISTEN AND COMMENT.  Your words mean the world to me, really!!!

[SteveB]

SteveB, thank you!  Wow, I need to get this crazy War of the Worlds album you keep referencing -- I've never heard it myself.  "Flawless?"  Wow, I can't thank you enough for that compliment!   How interesting that you ask if I've thought of doing a mix without drums... -- get this -- I have already done one!  At one point, I just felt the drums were too much of a driving force for the song and I thought maybe it needed to be a lot more mellow.  I will post this old version just for you.  It gives the song an entirely different feel.  For the album, I will definitely be going with the one with drums, but I just find it odd that you heard the same thing I heard with the possibility of no drums!

BSZ - First of all, I think I will probably speak for everyone when I say thanks to you for taking us on board for this journey of yours. 

On my suggestion of removing the drums as a try-out. Well, it is sometimes hard when you feel that you're standing alone with your opinion, but long ago I formulated the philosophy that it's better to say what you feel rather than adhere to the popular. And, hey, we all have our own musical tastes, the World in general, and this Forum in particular would be a rather monotone place if we were ALL writing and playing the same material: Just in the last couple of days on here, I've listened to some sensitive Rap, raucous Blues, shimmering Psychedelia, Other Worldly Concept Tracks, Latin Jazz, tentative Film Score music and more, and enjoyed every piggin bit of it!!

However you mix and present your finished work to the World, it is already (Just on listening to two tracks), a body of musical output of which you can be justifiably proud. It will be interesting to see how your vision comes together, and hopefully it will lead to some recognition from a wider audience. Those of us who struggle trying to bring one song to fruition, will stand agog at your sheer perseverance to bring not just an album of songs together in an ad hoc manner, but an inter-connected whole that will take the listener on a trip into someone's inner vision. I applaud your tenacity and committment to your Art.



BTW - Here is a link to War of the Worlds on Youtube. There are several segments you could play from the right-hand menu. This too is a Concept album, and is still going great guns even after 30 years. So your own offering may keep you warm and in comfort for many years to come. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln5ss4spIso

[Bosko Schwartz]

But now, a suggestion, have you listened to this mix without the drums? There is something nagging about this which I can't place. Could you upload a 'drumless' mix for aural perusal? I'm not deliberately being an awkward cuss, but if there's a doubt somewhere, then at least allow yourself the luxury of having the evidence tested before a final committment. Er, tell me to bugger-off by the way if you wish. 

In true "prog" fashion, I grew a mustache and threw on a sequined cape, went back in time, then read SteveB's future thoughts, by way of ESP, slapped together a rough mix of this song without drums, and then came Back to the Future to post this song.

Actually, here's what really happened:

SteveB, how interesting that you ask if I've thought of doing a mix without drums.  Interesting for three reasons: 1, because everyone seems to love the drums so much.  2, because, as I mentioned while responding to Mark (launched), I really struggled with the mix of the drums in this song early on -- it's one of the main reasons I put it on the shelf for a year and a half.  The third reason is because not only have I thought of doing a mix without drums -- get this -- I have already done one!  At one point, I just felt the drums were too much of a driving force for the song and I thought maybe it needed to be a lot more mellow.  I will post this old version just for you.  It gives the song an entirely different feel.

So I actually had this version done for over a year, and oddly enough, SteveB seemed to hear a similar possibility after listening to the mix with proper drums.  Now, this version doesn't have zero percussion -- it has shakers, maracas, tambourines, and a sort of thunderous bass drum sound along with what sounds like sand being dropped on a snare drum.  It makes for a quite different experience.  Also, the singing is really pitchy -- one of the reasons I re-recorded the vox.  The mix overall is a little different too.

So, like it or hate it, as requested by SteveB, here is "Birth of the Sun" without drums ...

[OsCKilO]

Another superb version!

You are like a master builder, putting up a stunning house, then modifying it!

Cool stuff J !!!!!!

[Diego Ayala]

Bosko, I like both versions and will give it a listen via my stereo when I get back from work.  One thing I like about the drum is that it truly accentuates the increasing wave motion to the song - gaining momentum...  Better quit listening to music and posting and get my arse to work!/@#!  Hata la proxima, hermano latino adoptado...

[SteveB]

BSZ - 10/10 

Well, now you really do have a dilemma. You simply cannot ditch this. It would be a crime against the listening public. (And you thought it was gonna be easy being a Star!). I think what was nagging at me was the synth-flute & drums striving for supremacy, and of the two, I prefer the synth-flute. It fits well with the tenderness in the vocal (The vocal from the version with drums would fit even better). Anyway, if your CD will handle it, I would certainly consider adding this as a bonus track. I've immediately downloaded it to my BR-MP3 folder before you decide to withdraw it, and it becomes a rarity.
A beautiful, touching song; and a tremendous performance. Thanks for uploading it.

SB

[Bluesberry]

Well SteveB may be onto something here.  What I wrote in the other mix thread was (among other ramblings): 

I don't know, it is mainly in the two sections 1:09-1:50 and 2:29-3:20, in these two sections the drums are really driving, pounding, and I am listening to the drums, and the vocals feel very stoned-out, behind the drums...it just feels to me that the singing is slightly slow compared to those driving drums. 

And you know what, during those sections, when the vocals become very slowed down , stoned or whatever, I like the percussion in this mix better.  But the rest of the song the real heavy drunms from the other mix sound wonderful.  So, if it is not too much to ask, can we have a third mix where the the vocals and drums are from the first mix, but in those sections (1:09-1:50 and 2:29-3:20) use the percussion from this mix.  That is not too much to ask is it Boscko?  I am kidding of course, I would never suggest you spend this kind of effort for the cheap thrills of the riff-raff (only speaking for myself of course, the rest of the folks on here are top drawer kind of people) on this site, but I actually like the minimalist percussion from this mix in those two sections better that the pounding drums from the  other mix.  Weird hu?  I'll stop now.  I think this is a dynamite and dynamic song that gets into my head big time and makes me feel all weird while listening (note to self: do not listen while driving, just in case), you are a freaking genius and my life has been enriched from hearing your songs and a little bit of your creative process.  Its is all about all the little choices made along the way.

[Frank53]

Been a while since I ventured over to the '1600 forum. Glad I did. Bosko, this is such a professional song and production. Love the arrangement and the vocals. Beautiful intro. Did I read that you play live drums? Acoustic or e-drums? They provide a strong drive to this. Great work!

Frank

[Geir]

Downloaded this and all your previous songs and will comment after a listening through all of them again.

First impression (after 2 spins + 2 of the one w/o drums) :
                       
                         bloody marvelous !!!!!

[Oldrottenhead]

wow, i like both versions i think i prefer the one with drums but like steveb suggested the version without drums could be a bonus track. utterly stunning song going onto my piepod for sure. on my fourth or fifth listen,  im getting flaming lips on the drum version but without the overpeaking they use on their drums in a lot of their songs, fantastic gonna listen again and again.