Is someone here trying to make it?

[Farrell Jackson]

We have a rescue dog and his nickname is Feral Jackson.

I say you've made it Farrell 

Hilary, I always knew fame was just around the corner but I had no idea that it was really across the pond   

[Ted]

We have a rescue dog and his nickname is Feral Jackson.

I say you've made it Farrell 

No greater honor.


What I've been thinking about is what Songcrafters would actually offer someone who is "trying to make it."

Here is a list of things that Songcrafters is not.

• A platform designed for mass distribution or monetization of music.
• Equipped with dedicated collaboration tools for members to work together on projects.
• Intended for uploading back catalogs of music.
• Specifically tailored for younger demographics or mainstream music trends.
• Focused on providing exposure to industry professionals or record labels.
• Emphasizing the latest music production tools and technologies.
• Prioritizing diversity and inclusion within its community – demographically or stylistically
• Geared towards leveraging modern digital marketing or social media promotion strategies.
• A forum that encourages building traffic on other platforms.
• Catering to artists seeking commercial success in the music industry.

It's... just... a... forum. Yes, a forum with some fancy custom modifications, and excellent moderation, and a vibe that is hard to find anywhere else. But still. It's just a forum. And we have a "birds of a feather" dynamic here. We skew heavily towards men in their late 50s (from what I can determine).

And believe me: I'm not going to suggest that we change our vibe. I'm happy and grateful that we discourage (i.e. slap down) one-sided attempts to "build an audience."

But put yourself in the shoes of someone who is "trying to make it." What are you going to find here that will help you? Mentorship, maybe? Help with this-or-that DAW or Recording Unit? The wisdom of the elders?

So far all of the answers to Zoltan's question have been "Nope" or "Nope, I'm too old for that shit."

I would really love to hear the response from someone who says "Yep." And to know why, in God's name, do they spend their time here.

Who here do we suspect is trying to make it?

[Zoltan]

We have a rescue dog and his nickname is Feral Jackson.

I say you've made it Farrell 

No greater honor.

I'd say! I can only wait for that moment when Hilary tells us at Feral had worms and they were christened as Zoltans

But put yourself in the shoes of someone who is "trying to make it." What are you going to find here that will help you?

Lots of good stuff here. My original post wasn't nearly as thought out as your reply, or your original post, but i did have my intentions. Some of them were maybe even gallant! ().

First of all we would have to define what "making it means". There are so many levels of making it and putting it down just as "making it in top-10" wouldn't cut it. At least i hope there are people who see life as having more shades than on and off

Your list of what Songcrafters isn't is a great one. For a total stranger to this forum the whole name of the site would suggest that this is a place where people interested in songwriting would hang out. With the intention of bettering themselves and their craft.

The option to comment on songs would serve that purpose, but for it to work for that particular person (and his needs and his aim of "making it" / "getting somewhere") we'd need to no what was his purpose behind the songwriting. There are so many levels to it all.

There's also a huge difference between a some old pro saying that things suck now, the indstry is doomed to some young guy who has bought an MPC and is making beats... And expecting to "make it big" after spending a few hours behind the "craft".

I know i'm lumbing things together and some of this might not make sense when lumbed together, but i hope at least some of the ideas are getting through.

What can Songcrafters and especially the comments on songs offer to people posting them?

Well, what has already been established is posting songs here can offer a "brotherhood" (i'm using this word instead of sisterhood because of the general demographic here as so apply outlined by Ted! ), a solace, open ears to hear new music. A way for the music to be heard, but not like on "A platform designed for mass distribution or monetization of music.".

It could offer a bit more if we knew from what perspective the songwriter is coming from. What he's hoping to "achieve" (maybe it's a better word in this case than "make it"). Is he hoping to become a better singer? (I think i've noticed a few here), is he hoping to make better songs etc. Better himself in all areas of song production.

If there's a guy who is hoping to make it commercially maybe a "group mind" could help offer some ideas. Some new perspective etc.

As an example i'm not hoping to make it in playing live, or to release commercial recordings. I'm hoping to someday make a one, or two good songs. The kind that i'm happy with. Everything else is just serving that purpose and enjoying the process. Trying to pinpoint weak areas and trying to get better.

I used to hate wearing all these different hats. I would have rather just concentrated on one area only and become great at that. But that was when i was thinking of playing "proper". And with time i've learned enough more about production and mixing and now i enjoy that whole process.

If i'd get a bunch of songs that i felt that were worthy i'd might turn them into an album. I would post it on Bandcamp, or some other site like that. Not with the expectations of hoping it to get heard by many people. Just by a select few (preferably total strangers!). I'd hope it to be a part of a certain style, sound, era (probably either 70-80s sound). I'd turn it into an album to be able to tell a story, or at least make the songs flow into each other. And to be able to make the album art etc. etc.

I would be happy if i was more single minded and could just set my mind on "I want to be a Ramone" thing because i'm sure i could nail the performances and the sounds. If it would take 1-2 years that wouldn't matter because i'm sure i could do it. But unfortunately i want to dip my hands on so many things that it gets complicated and i might not even live so long to do that So i'm enjoying the process.

I also tend to get drilled deep into a one specific idea so everything else might suffer. Like vocals can be totally horrid on a song where i was thinking of a certain guitar cabinet and making it work, or some LO-FI bitcrush idea i was hoping to try out in a song. The song might be good for that kind of a test, but it might not be that good as a song. Hence no interest in trying to get further with it.

My arrangements usually blow and i'd like to learn from Ray Brooks and Farrel Jackson among others, but i'm hoping to do it by osmosis (i'm lazy). For my stuff i prefer shorter songs. Single lenght is the epitome. What Motown achieved with usually so short songs is remarkable. I would like to get something out from JohnBees compositions, but they're on a level of their own so it's kinda like listening to Stevie Wonder and hoping some of that stuck. ODH for his character and wit! MikeS is the real underdog pretending to be just a regular guy, but he has a whole style of his own. I suck the cosmic energy from Stephen so much that if he ends up a shrivelled up one inch man... I'm the one to blame. Sorry

But what i don't know is the perspective of others. I have some idea on what Stephen is trying to do. I have some inkling of an idea what Greeny is about. He probably wants a bigger audience for his music, to keep things at least on a bit "higher level". Most of us here are just enjoying the act of making music, but there might be other aspirations for some of us. Or there might be new members that get scared away because they didn't get what they were expections (comments wise) and we didn't know so that we could have given a more meaningful comments.

Getting back on topic at hand. Maybe if there was a young guitar guy who wanted to "make it big" and was playing Ibanez and had great gear. His band would have been together for a while and they could almost play three Metallica songs before mucking it up. Complaining how they're not heard and how music business is in the skids. I'm sure ALL OF US could offer some guidance. At least i hope so

If there was someone who was hoping to make it as a solo artist and had maybe no idea on marketing, no idea what it takes (i know it's different in every country, and times ARE harder) we could offer some opinions. If someone was hoping to get his songs recorded, but didn't know what DAW to use, or how. We could help some.

This all boils down to the topic Ted posted. If someone complains about "not making it", or "how the music business is on the rocks" depends on who says it. Where he's coming from. A blanket statement that "things aren't the same as they were" is of course true, but sometimes people set themselves up for failure, or bad luck instead of trying to get into a place where they might find "good luck". Unrealistic expectations kill, but so do not trying anything.

On a closing note. Sorry for anyone who had to read all of this At least i hope i name checked you and sorry that i did, or if i didn't you were on my mind. In a positive way I had to shorten this ramble a lot. I got bored at hearing my own opinions.

[Zoltan]

But put yourself in the shoes of someone who is "trying to make it." What are you going to find here that will help you?

There are pros hiding. I'm sure. At least on a some level. Maybe if people are stuck in their ways, or jaded about it all their comments might not help with how things are now. But they'd still be valuable and could offer some insights.

I remember when sucking and having shit gear could still get you money in the live circuit. It was still doable in the 90s. This is just a bad example, but sometimes that's it takes (not this one, but i'm sure you get the idea ).

[Ted]

I just ran across this bit of wisdom of the elders:

I promise you this site is a dead end for people who come here merely to pimp their YouTube channel, their music blog, their Soundcloud profile, their Apple Music page, their Spotify, their podcast, etc.

[StephenM]

I just admitted to someone that I am trying to make it... I am trying to make it to the gem mine inside, to find the passion and the emeralds inside, to let go of the facades and barriers to my own mine... sometimes I need some dynamite and maybe some pick axes... and some ideas from other miners...

yeah... I am trying to make it inside... to believe.. and to explore... and to burst forth.

[Ted]

I just admitted to someone that I am trying to make it... I am trying to make it to the gem mine inside,

That's deep. And I feel the same. I feel that I'm in my own way creatively. That there's a lot more music in me that needs to find a way out.

[SteveB]

So while having a root around my music-books' bookshelves I encountered this purchase of youthful folly. Not exactly sure when I bought this, price 50p (probably a U.S. dollar or so), but must have been in the mid 1970s – so my early 20s etc. The author Tony Palmer is a well-respected film and theatre director as well as writer who worked with The Beatles among others. Although it is written very much tongue-in-cheek, there are some good pieces of advice for any budding entertainer, even after the passage of so much time and change of media landscape. Here are the first couple of paragraphs, and the final couple of lines.

                                             *

To make a million out of Pop Music, you need neither talent nor luck, good looks or skill. In fact if I knew what was needed, I wouldn't be telling you but be busy making that million myself.
The truth is that the ingredients required for any get-rich-quick process are as unknown as unknowable.

People who are not noticeably blessed with intelligence, wit or honesty have been some of the unlikeliest of hacks who have retired before the age of thirty, protected forever from the rigours of working when a particular product of theirs had become momentarily fashionable.

Finally, just keep going 'til you get the breaks, and if you don't, it probably won't have been your fault.
                                             *

(SteveB: Or you could just say 'Sod it', and join Songcrafters.)

[Blooby]

If by "make it," you mean that somebody will sit through an entire song of mine without going through a phone or starting an unrelated conversation, then yes, I am trying to make it.

Blooby

[StephenM]

If by "make it," you mean that somebody will sit through an entire song of mine without going through a phone or starting an unrelated conversation, then yes, I am trying to make it.

Blooby

you already have then.... I have listened the way you describe to a bunch of them...