Do people in your life care that you write songs? (via Reddit)

[Ted]

A comment from a post today on the Songwriting subreddit: Do people in your life care that you write songs? : r/Songwriting

These are probably some hard truths for some of the starry-eyed songwriters on that sub.

Dude, no one cares about music at all. Streaming and downloading and home recordings have made it a disposable commodity. It's super easy to record something decent and to put it out there for everyone. That's awesome for creators, but if you want people to care? Every dickwad with a drum machine is posting everyday. Half the people on your insta see it 5 times a day from people they know. The music itself has become secondary. You have to write it for yourself and not give a fuck.

If you do want people to care, you have to be on social media all the time engaging, putting some kind of visuals to it because attention spans don't exist anymore, you need a good image, and you gotta check all the boxes that should matter for an actor instead of a musician.

You have to be playing shows JUST the right amount. Too little and no one cares. Too much, and it's overkill. You need to be marketing yourself all the time. It's awful. A band like Credence wouldn't make it today because their image was just a bunch of dudes. The radio is proof that music doesn't matter as much as what ELSE you're doing. Same old shit, and new shit from people that have some kind of drama going on. It's fucked man.

Just do it for yourself. If it's good enough go tour, get a label, then people will start to care. A bedroom warrior like myself at this point has no chance. I used to tour and play out a bunch and do all kinds of stuff to stay busy and my bands did fairly decent for themselves. But you need a band, no solo shit unless you're a singer songwriter that hits home runs consistently, and everybody needs to be well rehearsed, good looking, all active on socials, grinding. Otherwise, it doesn't matter.

I can post a selfie and get 200 likes but if I post a couple new riffs I'm working on, I'll get like 10. Well recorded, melodic, it doesn't matter because people don't even scroll with the volume up half the time. The people wearing good headphones while scrolling are even less, way less. You basically have to pay to play. Write great songs, hire artists to make art for it, make videos for everything, and if yiu aren't an established act where people are salivating for what's next, you can take no breaks.

It's harsh but it's true. And AI is gonna put a serious dent in music too pretty soon I think. So either do it strictly for yourself and the 5 people that like you that like your posts, and wish for the best, or bust your ass nonstop doing backflips for people that don't care and stay consistent, and beat em down one by one. As long as you're under 25 that is, otherwise you've aged out in the new landscape.


https://www.reddit.com/r/Songwriting/comments/1bexvoy/comment/kux08ae/

[SteveB]

Well it seems a reasonable summary of what's going down in the hood, and those salient points have been noted around here by others and myself for the last decade or more. Thankfully, that's what's great about Art and Artists: we will keep creating it whatever else happens. Sure, we like reaction (some more than others), but we do it anyway. It becomes like breathing, a second-nature thing. We bring to life's table the garnish that makes a dull meal into a feast. Long may it continue. 

[Mike_S]

Well it seems a reasonable summary of what's going down in the hood, and those salient points have been noted around here by others and myself for the last decade or more. Thankfully, that's what's great about Art and Artists: we will keep creating it whatever else happens. Sure, we like reaction (some more than others), but we do it anyway. It becomes like breathing, a second-nature thing. We bring to life's table the garnish that makes a dull meal into a feast. Long may it continue. 

Nice words Steve and good post Ted.

This kind of landscape is fairly understood by us here, but it's always worth hearing it again and that guy framed it pretty well. No sugar coating. It's great that a lot of folks continue making music without any false hopes of making it, I think most of us here that way of thinking doesn't come into it. I think the music even benefits from this. We do whatever the hell we want.

In saying that, if any younger folk actually do persevere and keep going trying to reach a bigger audience and make it kinda big then I love to hear stories like that too. For all the shit in the charts there are sometimes one or two round the edges that are actually pretty good.

Mike

[Ray Brookes]

A great post, Ted and a sobering, even demoralising outlook for anyone aspiring to become the next rock legend. I think a lot of us on this site have already experienced such disappointments in earlier years so few aspirations for us these days. I agree with Mike that here we can do what we like musically without worrying too much about any kind of commercial success or global recognition and yet that creative bug still wriggles around inside our heads. 

[Zoltan]

To reply to the topic... Zero fucks given (pardon my french!).

Personally i'm playing and making songs just because i want to. My end goal is to stay unknown

There has been doors open for live playing, but even that's not for me. If i was younger and single... Maybe then. Last time i thought about this was only a few days ago. It would have kinda made sense from the money point of view.

*

As far as the solo stuff goes those things come and go. From my perspective the (wider) solo thing is currently suffering, but it's bound to make a comeback in the near future.

It all also depends on the target audience. If the band is somewhat established and has older target audience they can still sell tickets. The younger bands struggle because their audience lacks both income and attention span.

New bands have to be really good to make it and yes they have to have social marketing skills. They have to approach it in a more professional manner (or at least someone has to do it for them). The fact that they're more than likely  not going to make any money can result in early break up of the band. But once again... They really have to want to do it.

The new bands have to pay their dues. The problem is that there are less venues and dates available. Especially for the bands that have no following / draw.

The bands / artists have to find their way. They have to have something special going. Getting to that point can and usually takes a lot of work and time.
Just because it's easy to sound good on a recording doesn't mean it's good / or has value besides sounding good. The artists / songs need to have that something extra. Personality etc.

Times have changed, the peoples listening habits have changed. The value of music has changed, but it's still far from dead.

In the old times it was only the select few who got to record anything. They also (maybe) got to make it. Now everyone can record anything. And still only the select few makes it. In the old times it was the same. Only those who had something special going for them made it.

And no i'm not wearing rose colored glasses. There are huge chunks of the whole industry gone... Most likely forever.

There used to be a struggling "middle ground" . Those who weren't good enough and frankly would never be good enough... Yet they still managed to somehow make a living. That middle ground has mostly vanished.

There are still many ways to make a living in the music industry. Maybe not as a "rockstar", but maybe with enough talent & luck that can happen too.

On a closing note. One has to work for that luck too.

*steps down from the high horse and tries to avoid the flying manure*

[Ted]

To reply to the topic... Zero fucks given (pardon my french!).

What makes me a bit sad sometimes is not the zero prospect of "fame" for my music. It's the zero fucks received for my music from the people closest to me. My wife never asks to hear the music I've made. Never. (My ex-wife was the same.) I think that's fairly typical. I can't allow myself to be disappointed by that. But I used to.

The hardest truth in that long comment by iFknLoveTits is the first one:

Dude, no one cares about music at all.

It's a truth that I accepted a long time ago -- before Instagram and TikTok ever existed. Composing and creating music is a hobby. I wouldn't expect to become famous and loved for collecting baseball cards. And I don't expect to become famous and widely loved for my songs.


That's what makes community so important. I'm not going to connect with the people closest to me over my hobby -- collecting baseball cards or creating music. The same goes for the world. But a community of people with the same passion makes the hobby a little less lonely.

[Zoltan]

What makes me a bit sad sometimes is not the zero prospect of "fame" for my music. It's the zero fucks received for my music from the people closest to me. My wife never asks to hear the music I've made. Never. (My ex-wife was the same.) I think that's fairly typical. I can't allow myself to be disappointed by that. But I used to.

My wife doesn't want to hear my songs either. I'd say even regardless of genre.
My mother doesn't want to hear them either (even thought she's always pushed me towards that direction!). If my mother hears them she'll always comments something like "that was nice", or becomes a rock police "you could have sung it better". There's rarely any change in the comments so i can save the trouble and tell them to myself "that's nice"

I've never really pushed my stuff towards anyone though. And over the years i haven't even felt the need to do so. For me it's more about wanting to talk about the mechanics of songwriting, or lyrics, or gear rather than about my songs.

But it goes the both ways. Ted, does your wife do any kinds of crafts? Do you enjoy hearing about them in great detail? The quality of yarn, about the knitting sticks? I don't It's almost the same as a little kid endlessly talking about games to some adult who isn't at all interested. Talking about gear can be just like that. I do occasionally ramble about stuff and she humours me. But at the sametime i know it's almost the same as talking to a garden gnome.

Also the opinions don't really matter. For example. You'll get your song mixed by someone else. A real pro. And you think the end results sounds like shit. Everyone else thinks it sounds great. Would you rather have that than being happy with the end results yourself?

There are women (men, animals, circles whatever to keep this "up to date") who do enjoy hearing other peoples songs and talk about gear. I've known women who liked guitar players, women who play, or sing. Even women with fan mentality... Always spinning

I've never really been with anyone who is into playing. The way i am. The way where it's the THING.

Over the years i've had some great comments from wife, but they're more "salty" than admiring. The main one "why don't you only write good songs?", or a variant "why don't you only write songs you like?".

I've thought that about a lot and i'm sure the same applies most of you. There are several answers for that so i'm not going to get into that.

Then there's the slight occasional positive comment when things are being compared "you're actually better than this, or that" (Not Yoko Ono syndrome!), or "why don't you do the gig?" (which hints towards the remote possibility that i could do any gig).

You're never going to get much out from people who aren't insanely into making music, or playing something. That doesn't mean no one cares about music anymore.

That's what makes community so important. I'm not going to connect with the people closest to me over my hobby -- collecting baseball cards or creating music. The same goes for the world. But a community of people with the same passion makes the hobby a little less lonely.

If your music wasn't a hobby then more "average joes" would take notice. Then you'd get all kinds of comments from regular people.

Your wife would start commenting about how much she enjoys the new sofa you were able to buy with the song your wrote, or the mansion in Madagascar that was built with the money from the hit song "People hear me out".

Also talking about lonely. Let's consider that you'll dig yourself deep into obscure guitar gear and feel like singing it's praises. Then even every other player you meet will feel alienated because they have their own (most often more "mainstream")likes and dislikes

Ending on a positive note. Then there are families who play together. A case in point. The Moore family. They'll brush out the instruments and go to town. It's in the water.
Or the famous Berry family. I doubt you can even get a sip of water around them without them breaking into a song!

[StephenM]

first off, glad to know someone else here likes baseball cards.. me too, although I ain't exactly a big collector.. I have some boxes full... and a few nice ones... i love baseball in most forms and I can still play at 65 and I am really happy about that... i could pitch a few innings without throwing an arc on it...lol...

there is so much truth in this post.  It is why I choose very carefully now where I spend my "music" time these days.  For the reasons expressed and almost always people want you to listen to theirs and or buy it and they don't give a FF about anyone elses.... it is what it is.
when I go to open mic I sit and listen to every single person who plays.  I don't go as much any more... mostly because I am getting old to be out late and also I have a tendency to get involved in activities that are not good for me such as drinking (which is really why the open mics exist to sell products and get your money, kind of like churches).... however I do find some really interesting people with passion for music that I connect with, even just a little... I also find there are those who will like to bump you out... for various reasons... also i get sick of hearing the same old friggin covers... please do something from your soul man.

now I am ranting.  I love this community because there are good and great musicians, songwriters, recording engineers, and producers who not only make incredible music but also share what they know to help me and others like me.  At the end of the day this is, as has been alluded to community.  My oldest son now acknowledges that I can rock like hell but he says I need a singer...ok... so I play Neil Young and he says he sucks so there you go... everybody and almost no one is gonna like me so what?  The point of all this is getting to where ( and I can now thanks to so many good people on here) play anywhere anytime and hold my head high knowing it's as good as most of the rest around and that I don't have to feel bad about anything... and I encourage everyone else that same way...

the band Kansas almost never got heard and were so close to destruction just before their 4th album came out, it was a miracle and a reward for all their hard work... a damn good band... and great musicians... that almost no one ever heard.

I only ever asked to maybe have a couple people like some of my music... this site is special... and I doubt the founders and those working to keep it going know how great it is... and I am glad it is small.

[StephenM]

btw, I have read every word on this thread and will as it goes.

also most of us never thought about the race we had to win to get into this world to begin with... lol... but it is true....

I know a young guy, who works really hard and plays live anywhere and everywhere... I told him "you have a voice that is gonna break your heart".... because I know all these things mentioned to be true... and to be honest I think it has always been somewhat this way... it is very hard for artists of any kind to get known.
He got a gig on Sunday mornings playing in a coffee and food place in town... and he is doing good with tips and stuff... he has a good vibe and does not give up... I go listen to him quite a bit... but I don't like his open mics when he hosts... he tends to not be fair with the sign up sheets and makes it practice time for him and his friends and he does them in a place where it cost about 40 bucks for a meal and a couple glasses of wine... so I ain't gonna do that one no more... I can't afford that for what I get back.... we all do things for our own reasons.... and I need to be clear on my motivations because everyone else is.

[Mike_S]

Yeah it's weird the whole wife/partner responses (or lack of them) to our music. Seems a few of us are on the same page. We are together about 25 years and my wife almost never comments on anything I do. She has gone literally years not making any comment at all. I often wondered, what she thought and why she would not say anything. And there is always the possibility it is painful to her    ... well yeah why not?

The raw truth is we might lull ourselves into a false sense of how good we think we might be. And maybe the deafening silence coming back is just there to keep us grounded (speaking for myself here only!) But the funny thing is as the years have gone by, especially the last couple, I have started not giving a shit about her not giving a shit. Things like forgetting she is even around if I am working on an idea. Or even singing a little if she is within listening distance... something I always avoided before. And strangely she has said once or twice in the last few months "Oh, that's nice, what's that?" out of the blue. That caught me very unaware the first time after all this time and I just looked back at her and said "Oh I dunno, just making stuff up"

Good thread guys!

Mike