Vocal Tracks

[StephenM]

perhaps you could take some of your vocal tracks and send them to a few folks on here to process them... just to compare what they might sound like compared to your way.  One of the things I love about recording and mixing is doing things different almost every single time... I find I learn alot more, don't get bored with stuff as easy etc... I try and keep some notes but not meticulous. 
I more or less burn every bridge i cross... but hey... since I am not selling music or getting thousands of plays I do this for my own entertainment and satisfaction of learning. 
Singing by itself is worthwhile.... even if we suck at it... and you don't... but you don't really sing like many people I can think of and that in itself is worth something.  Why sound like someone else?  It happens, I know at times i do sound a bit like Neil Young, I heard that years ago... it isn't something I try to do...
There are studies that show that people who sing live longer... some of my family though may not make it as long listening (humor here)....
I like your busy songs... they are great... but Steve B does have a point too about simpler... maybe change the point in song creation where you do the vocal... like don't wait until the end.  Try it with a rough guitar or piano or somethings simpler... you can fill in around that...
personally i like your songs and your vocals.. there is some fine innocence in them... lots of color.. nuance.  Don't worry about nobody listening... there are thousands and millions of great singers, guitarists etc... that nobody ever hears...
and I go out a fair amount and listen to many, many fine singers and musicians... and one thing keeps me from giving up.... and that is there is absolutely no one out there like me.... I count that as a win... even if I ain't paying no bills with music.

[Johnbee]

Hey!  Thanks so much for all your tips.  I really appreciate them. So far this year I did 4 projects-"Sweet Regrets", "You Are Here", "Midnight Minstrel" and "Be The Enigma".  I was really getting frustrated because they seem to be sounding worst with every new project until I finished "Enigma" just this week.  The vocal track on that doesn't sound half bad and in asking myself what I did differently I came to this conclusion:

My microphone of choice is my Avantone CV-12 which is a tube condenser, so named because it actually has a small vacuum tube in it and requires AC power. The power supply box includes a selection of 9 polar patterns ranging from the most open (pattern #1 which is omnidirectional) and the numbers progressively close up so that #5 is a cardioid pattern and #9 is the most closed (figure eight). On the first 3 tunes this year I've been using position 8 & 9.  On Enigma I opened it to #5.  I'm not sure but since that is what I did differently it might have had something to do with it.  I also would like to be able to experiment with putting the mic in different positions (like above me) but the tiny size of my room would not allow that.  I'm limited to directly in front of me.  I can vary in distance (usually 3 to 5 inches away) and I tend to sing off to the side and not directly into the mic.  I know the new tune is much better to my ears.  I hope I found the permanent solution but I doubt it.  I think it's just a happy fluke, but we shall see on the next project, what/when ever that will be. I've heard pros say that "you just have to try different mics till you find the one that "likes" your voice".  I wish I had enough money to invest in a "microphone locker" like the pros have but I'm just a retired bakery worker.

Thanks again,guys.

John B

[AndyR]

I've had a good old listen to minstrel and enigma - cool songs and arrangements.

I've also reread all the comments in this thread, all good stuff.

First of all,
If you'd said the following to me a year or so ago: "I've heard pros say that "you just have to try different mics till you find the one that "likes" your voice"..."
I'd have said "yeah.. I've heard that too... whatever"

Except! I have found a mic that I think likes my voice
It's a Shure SM7B.
I haven't posted any completed tracks with it, but it is in use in a video here in this post: https://songcrafters.org/forum/index.php?topic=34755.msg411073

Since I got it, I just put it in front of me and sing - it's not always perfect, but it is always usable and I've stopped worrying.

On that video, recorded with the Windows Camera app taking a live mix off a mixing desk, the vox aren't quite loud enough and are very dry. But I'm perfectly happy to publish it as "here you go: ME! ()"

So, first off, there might be a mic out there that makes you feel more comfortable.
However, ANY mic can get you good results. I don't know yours - but it sounds like it's a good one.

I have two suggestions for you: Commitment and Compression/EQ.

Commitment. I mean how you approach singing the vocal. The singer needs to be committed and fully present in the performance. I have real trouble with capturing this on a recording myself. I suspect it's one of the things behind your unease when you listen back. I read Ted saying how he only sings when he's about to record a vocal... I've been guilty of that too. Then when you press record you've got all the worry of recording (and being the engineer) and the fear that your vocal always sounds not as good as you want and...  on top of that, you haven't been rehearsing at all!!!

For me, one of two things happen in this situation - I over-compensate and maybe get some artifact I don't want (overload, popping, etc) or I "over act" and sound stupid/embarrassing (in my mind). OR... I'm under committed and the vocal sounds accurate but lacking - it's like the singer doesn't mean it.

The SM7B has helped in my case, it's removed some of the engineer and set up worries. I can distort the mic, but most of the time it's REALLY forgiving and it's VERY directional, it cuts out sideways noises, and foot-tapping, etc.

But the mic is not the biggest difference, it removed some fears etc for me, and helped enable the capturing of a decent performance when I actually give one.

Much greater is "living" the song and "performing" it rather than just singing it. And for that it's rehearsing and experimenting and trying to be who you want to be. Find how you'd like to hear the song, learn how to do it, and rehearse it. The more you do it, the easier it gets on the next one.

Ted mentioned using a silly rockstar voice for a scratch vocal - and he got a better performance. THIS! It's this.

My singing voice is my singing voice now, the one you all hear. But it's not my real singing voice. The one I use when singing carols at a carol service - that's the voice I started with. The "Andrew Russe voice" is one I developed many years ago when I decided I could be the lead vocalist in a band. It's second nature to me now and comes from impersonating lots of heroes (both male and female).

But my real, "carol-singing", voice sounds uncommitted, under-confident, worried about being in tune, worried about note length, breathing, whatever...

I strongly suspect that what you can hear in your vocal tracks is something along these lines, and you don't like it, same as I don't like mine.

The trick is rehearsing so you are confident. So that you feel like you are commanding the room when you sing it.

I could write more about commitment in the vocal performance, but I hope you get what I mean.

Compression/EQ. It might be EQ as well, but I suspect Compression at mixing is going to be your friend.

Your voice is pretty good. Your phrasing is good. It all sounds accurate (maybe some notes are short, but see commitment above). But I suspect you feel like it doesn't fit the track like it should, like someone else would make it fit. Is it performance? Is it mics? Is it mixing/effects? I spent years trying to find out why my voice didn't fit in the song like "professionals" do. I never got an answer, but sort of faked it.

Recently I've learned that, once you've got a decent performance on tape, whether it's as committed as you'd like or not, you can always make it sit better in the mix. You can make it feel like it should be there.

And one of the biggies is SERIOUS (as far as I was concerned) amounts of compression on the vocal in the mix. I never used to do this, I thought "compression" was a thing I didn't want to be involved in.

Instead, I used to try the doubling, double tracking, parallel-compression, etc, etc, tricks. There's loads of them. What I found eventually was ordinary compression (and EQ), if it needs it, and we're done.


Finally, check this guy out
I don't know whether you're into watching videos, but there's this guy called Joe Gilder. My wife and I call him "Cuddly Joe". He's helped me solve LOADS of issues.

He might speak to you, he might not. He does to me, but I know some folk who don't like his videos. His stuff on his Home Studio Corner channel is what showed me it's easier than we all thought. And I like his presentation. He doesn't like giving magic settings, he likes you to understand what you're doing and why.


Here's a couple that could help (he's got loads more on vocals, I couldn't find the actual one I wanted)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN0wn_o10gY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HblBRzML2Ro

[Zoltan]

+++ for Andy!