Forum Consensus on the 'Post Your Work' format...

[SteveB]

Well, I've spent several minutes looking at the Home Page.
Is there something inherently wrong with how the Forum is now set up?
Seems pretty logical. The logo-photo at the top of the page serves to remind that there are several versions of the BR Family, and ALL require a learning curve. Keeping the model designations separate will at least allow all the members to pinpoint a starting place for their particular machine. And further, though slightly off the music point, what if someone wants to record some poetry, or voices interacting in some way. It doesn't specify that because you own a BR that you have to record music, nor, I presume is it a rule of the Forum that only music can be uploaded here.

I voted for number 1.

[AndyR]

Hmmm... this is difficult... haven't voted yet, still thinking...

I'm almost a "No change" or a "Don't care".

But on the other hand, when I've been busy, and I'm looking for catching up on listening - I'm interested in finding what I'm looking for and a split would be helpful...

I'm very persuaded by Bluesberry's Originals, Instrumentals, Covers, Collabs argument - that would work very well for me, I'd know where to find songs with words, songs without, etc... but on the other hand - I get some really good surprises sometimes when something turns out to be different than I was expecting...

And added to that I'd hate to think that the classifications that worked for me would alienate anyone. Creativity is a very precious thing, and we're all of us sensitive and unsure of ourselves, especially when we first stick our noses above the parapet. I count myself very lucky that I can sing, arrange, write music and lyrics, play a variety of instruments (or know how to make it sound like I can!), and to top it all I'm starting to master this "producing" lark, something I've wanted to know how to do for nearly 20 years... Now, I do have fear of failure or of sounding like a dick, just like everyone else, but I have to admit that most of what I create I'm usually very confident about, so I'm extremely lucky in that...

What I'm trying to say is - I think it's important that, as far as possible, we maintain an environment where everyone feels "anything I'm brave or daft enough to put up there will be listened to sympathetically, no matter how dorky I think it might be but hope it isn't..."

Now, the gut feeling I have is that all the other folk like me on here feel exactly the same as I do - supportive, want to share what we can, encourage, etc... because we've all been through it etc...

But... I wonder, will it matter how supportive I am, if, because of time constraints, I only really prowl the "originals" thread, because that's what interests me most, most of the time? What happens if other songwriters do this? Is it possible that it might seem to others that the "super creative types" are over in the originals thread, they're nice enough, but they are different beings than the rest of us... Of course, we're not, but I suspect it could end up looking that way. Or, it might not be that bad, but we just separate off into little cliques of people that like doing x, people that like y, people that like z...

As the structure stands at the moment, I hear stuff I wouldn't dream of searching for, it surprises me and encourages me, expands my horizons, etc...

I was thinking that all the BRs ought to go in one pot... I kinda forget that ones bigger than MBR exist! (Although I am starting to GAS over a BR1600 now  ) - but on the other hand... I do like knowing which BR it was done with, it would be such a drag if we always had to type "and I recorded it on my wotever-BR", and it is quite easy for me to go prowling off in the other areas...

Personally, I definitely want the "collab" section separate - that works for me big time. We all know that if we chuck something in there we're throwing it open and are asking or challenging for interraction. But if we chuck it in "Post your work" people will always ask before doing anything else with it. It's simple and saves any possible stepping on each others creativity...

So, all in all...
...I think I've decided!

I'm voting 1 

EDIT: SteveB posted while I was writing - if you'd posted earlier Steve, I think I might have been able to decide without writing all this!!

[Ted]

I voted 5: "Don't Care" -- not as in, "I don't give a shit," but as in, "I see merits in all of the options."

I wish this forum software allowed for cross-posting, or tagging.

Hey Pedro!  Do you suppose we could get a Del.icio.us widget (or something like that) going here?  That way we could cross reference the posts any way we like.  Just an idea.

[Bosko Schwartz]

In response to Andy, if we were to go with option 3 (my proposal) I really don't think there would be separate "cliques" of people that don't enter each other's "realms."  On the contrary, this is exactly what I am trying to avoid and precisely the reason I proposed this in the first place.  The fact that all BRs are separate now keeps the many MBR users separate from all other Boss users.

I'm trying to avoid this segregation because I feel that because of the way the site is set up now, 99% of all members automatically flock to the MBR board to listen to new music -- hell, even I do that, and I only own a BR-1600 and only post in the BR-1600 board -- what does that tell you??

If we cut it down to just the three boards I proposed, it would not be that difficult to switch from Originals to Covers, so I just don't see the "super-creative" types who only do originals staying in their rooms and not venturing out to the Covers board, or vice versa.  I think it's fair to say that if people don't want to listen to covers, they aren't going to listen to covers, whether they are in a separate room or not.  Besides, it would be only a click away to get from the Originals board to the Covers room.  3 main categorical boards makes it nice and neat.

But as the site is set up now, there are just way too many different places to look for music.  People can sort of get "lost" with all the different options.  There are places no one has ever gone and will probably never go.  There's a lot of great music being missed.  That's all I'm saying.

On a technical note, I wonder if part of the reason nothing has been done yet to change it is because it would be a logistical nightmare to try and separate everything that has already been posted between Originals and Covers boards?  Is this true, Pedro?  If so, I don't want to cause too much trouble.  If that is the case, I would change my vote to 64Guitar's proposal -- just throw everything into one big pot.

[Ted]

No taxonomy is ever perfect.  I would continue to use this forum if it were to remain structured as it is.  Furthermore, I'm grateful for the work and cost that has gone into creating and managing this forum.

However... Here's an example of when segregating child boards by BR model is not useful.

I frequently use the link for "Show unread posts since last visit".

In the current topic hierarchy, under the top level topic "Boss BR Digital Recorders," too many of the "child boards" have BR Models as their names. (See the attached screenshot.) 

When I look at the unread topics, I don't know whether "My Brothers Tree" is under General Discussion, Tutorials, Post your MP3, Post Your MP3 - Collaborations only, or Post Your Effects Patches & Rhythm Arrangements.

The question is: Do people care or find it useful to have the child boards named this way?

Here are my answers.

Main Board	Are Child Boards by Model Useful?
General Discussion	No.  I'd rather see each BR model have it's own top-level board, such as "BR 600 General Discussion"
Tutorials	Yes. But the child boards might be renamed more descriptively, such as "Tutorials for Micro BR"
Post your MP3	Tough call, but mostly no.  Being a Micro BR user, I like to know when someone has pushed their little brick to the limit.  It would be nice if everyone would remember to identify their BR Model.
Post Your MP3 - Collaborations only	No--not as long the file formats of collaboration are WAV and MP3 files.
Post Your Effects Patches & Rhythm Arrangements	Probably.  I don't know how well these patches and patterns migrate from one model to another.

[AndyR]

Yeah, I'm with you Bosko, I actually prefer option 3 and 4 myself. But I felt uncomfortable for some reason, and while I was thinking out loud, I was trying to imagine how I'd personally operate on a forum that shape.

Because of time issues, I would frequent the "originals" mainly - in fact that's why I'd like that category to exist, so I'd know where to go, and I'd know my "latest offering" might not disappear off the front page so fast

But then I wondered how my actions might appear to others, or affect others maybe, who don't want to sing or write music with words, or who maybe want to but don't feel able to yet, etc...

I might be wrong about this, but it seems to me that human nature goes one of two ways when faced with coming across people who can do stuff we want to be able to do. These are the two extreme types:

"wow! that's really great, I bet I could do that, possibly even better if I tried hard..." and we give it a go regardless whether we should or not...

"wow! that's really great, but I'll never be that good..." and we decide not to give it a go in case someone confirms our opinion...

I realised I quite like how the forum works now - I've only been on here a month or so, but so far it seems to cater for and encourage both extremes and all points in between. I believe that this is a very good thing, but that it's also a really fine balance to maintain, which could be disturbed so easily. (I know there are other big factors involved, the way we all respond to each other, etc... and maybe we won't be able to hang on to this balance anyway, as more and more people arrive...)

Added to that, with the current structure, without feeling "forced to", I hear and get involved in stuff that I really wasn't planning on, or felt remotely interested in, but it turns out to be really satisfying, empowering, helpful to my own music, etc, etc...

All in all, I like how it works, and the environment it creates for us. For me, the only driving reasons for changing would be if it is becoming a problem to maintain and administrate, or if the forum started dying in it's current state...

So I applied the old "if it ain't broke..." ... and my vote had to be "leave it as it is".

BUT! actually, I'll accept whatever shape the forum takes - I did when I arrived. So in fact I'm probably a "Don't Care" in the same way as Ted


EDIT: I thoroughly endorse what Ted's posted about child boards while I was typing... I use "Show unread posts" a lot as well, and I agree with his answers to the question he poses.

Had to look up "taxonomy" though... 

[Bosko Schwartz]

Hi Andy,

I just responded to your post in the other topic on this subject.

I am perplexed as to why you were originally for option 3 or 4 but then changed your opinion to "no change."  Again, I don't understand how merging the boards will lead to any sort of lack of confidence for anyone.

Perhaps I am just not making myself clear about how I envision the forum.  Let me try to put it a different way ...

Imagine the MBR "Post Your Work" Board exactly as it is now ...

Jumping and hopping with activity; loads of new music being posted literally every minute; positivity bursting from the seams; thousands of words of encouragement being thrown around left and right; because of this, people coming out of their shells and gaining confidence they never knew they had; musicians trying new things they never would have done if not for the forum; new friends being made daily with people sometimes half-way across the globe; this leads to collaborations -- and even sometimes full bands -- with same said friends, leading to incredible music.  The possibilities are literally endless, and thus, a state of musical nirvana can be reached.

I think that fairly describes the Micro board as it is now -- would you agree?

Now, take that board exactly as it is now and simply add all of the music that has been (and will be) posted by all of the other members who do not have MBRs but have BR-900s or BR-1200s or BR-1600s, etc.  This is my vision.  I do not see how it could possibly change the "feel" of the forum.  It would simply be like the MBR board on steroids.  I believe it would take the MBR board experience that currently only MBR users are now privileged enough to fully imerse themselves in, and expand it to all Boss users, enhancing the board itself and the experience for all members 1000-fold.

Now, simply take that board and split it between Originals and Covers (for obvious reasons).  Collaborations will also be in a separate board, exactly as it is now.  And there you have my vision.

I guess my point is that it's not about the recorder anyone uses -- it's simply about the MUSIC.  Yes, we all use Boss recorders, which gives us a sort of common ground, but I don't listen to a song from the Micro board with different ears than I do the BR-900 board.  All that matters is the songs posted.  If I am missing something, please help me understand.  I just don't see how this merge could possibly be a bad thing, or how it could discourage people from posting or make anyone's confidence suffer.

Thanks for listening to my babble!

[launched]

You have MicroBR Envy don't you, Bosko?  (I'm sorry, couldn't help that!)

To be fair, you are right, my man. I think confidence building and limit pushing completely outweighs the value of plastic technology - long live the musician and not the machine... In the end, who cares what BR it is recorded on.

Mark

(edit) P.S. I just wanna know how somebody did it!!!

[Bluesberry]

You have MicroBR Envy don't you, Bosko?  (I'm sorry, couldn't help that!)

To be fair, you are right, my man. I think confidence building and limit pushing completely outweighs the value of plastic technology - long live the musician and not the machine... In the end, who cares what BR it is recorded on.

Mark

Hahaha, Thats funny Mark, but it is not "microBR envy" but "microBR board envy".  It feels like the party is over at microBR Post your work section and the other recorder sections are all cobwebs and drunken guys sleeping in the corners, none too lively.  It feels like we are marginalized on the other threads sometimes.  For me it is not as bad as I started on the microBR, still use the microBR (for easier songs like covers and guitar jams) and still post in the microBR spot, but when I do finally finish something on my BR-1200 it feels like I get a lot less comments and listens as I would by posting in the micro spot.  For a guy like Bosko and the others it must feel like second class members or something, to see all this activity and energy bouncing around on the microBR thread and to see their own threads so inactive.  I don't know what the answer is.  I sometimes don't want to post my BR-1200 songs in the 1200 spot either.  I use both machines anyway.  If this is going to be truly a Boss BR site and not just a MicroBR site then we need to get all the Boss machines posts under the same area.  But I still like the idea of breaking out instrumentals, guitar jams, incomplete songs, rough sketches, etc from the "original songs".  I would like to see this site celebrate and encourage songwriting and original songs and lyrics and singing.  For me that is the ultimate goal and challenge and I would like to see these wonderful original songs not buried under the avalance of other posts that we see on a daily basis.  I would like to log on, first check the latest original songs, then check out the instrumentals and jams and noodling stuff, then check covers, in that order.  I think having all original songs in one thread would encourage songwriting from many members, which would make this a pretty special forum.  Write a song, sing and play it, post it where you will get noticed and get lots of listens/comments, and it will not get buried too fast.  That is the way I see it anyway.

[AndyR]

I'm coming round to your way of thinking Bosko (explained on the other thread) - and I suddenly understand why you and BB and folks like you need the different BR distinctions gone. I'm dreaming about the BR1600 at the moment - it's starting to look worth the outlay for me. If I bought that, considering the types of stuff I record most of the time - I'd want to use it most of the time... then I'd be in a bit of a quandry. I'd want to get maximum exposure, but to do that it has to be on the MBR...

(of course, I'd then have the luxury of using the big one for tracking, mixing mastering... then WAV it to the MBR for converting to MP3 - voila! I can put it on the MBR board )

Yeah, I think I'm changing my vote to my actual preference - still think we need to listen to folks that are worried they might feel overawed or overshadowed if they can't or don't want to create complete songs. It would be up to all of us to maintain the "balanced environment" we've got at the moment that means people young and old who are completely new to making noises for people feel empowered to make those noises

EDIT: Hey! Where's the "remove your vote" option? Is that not enabled on this poll?
Wouldn't actually make much difference at the moment in this case...