Which of you are using EZ DRUMMER 2 ?

[AndyR]

I'm heading towards EZ/Superior Drummer now - almost exclusively because of this thread

I'm moving back to DAW recording (after x years of very happy BR1600 use).

I've been fiddling for a week (PreSonus Studio One) and can almost do all I was doing before, but with a little more ease(!), except... drums.

I checked out some EZDrummer vids and realised that's exactly what I want - I can work like I did on the BR1600 with it's patterns and song arrangements, but it will be LOADS easier.

The only reason I haven't pulled the trigger is because I haven't watched any Superior Drummer vids yet...

Interestingly, I'm the opposite to you guys - I WANT the same drum kit/sound every time. I tend to record the "Andrew Russe Band" on the songs I write - I don't want the drummer turning up with a new kit every session

I hear what you guys are saying but, for me, the song is usually already written by the time the drummer shows up - I rarely write a song around an instrumentation/arrangement - I just want a consistent performance from my backing band on the song I ask them to play...

(although I might be about to start writing with cut, copy, and paste now I'm back on a DAW!)

[Bishmanrock]

The only reason I haven't pulled the trigger is because I haven't watched any Superior Drummer vids yet...

Note there is a crossgrade deal for Superior Drummer 3, so that you get a cheaper price on it if you already own EZDrummer 2, which is what I did.

It probably works out a bit more expensive overall if you do it that way, but if you're like I was a few years back and wasn't sure whether I'd really need the extras for SD3, it just means you can buy into EZD2 for a bit now and then you have the option to upgrade at a slight discount later on down the line, rather than paying full for both in the long run.

Also note EZD2 does go on sale every so often, but SD3 never does.

Top tips!

I hear what you guys are saying but, for me, the song is usually already written by the time the drummer shows up - I rarely write a song around an instrumentation/arrangement - I just want a consistent performance from my backing band on the song I ask them to play...

Funnily enough this is how I also work, I write the full arrangement in a midi sequencer before moving into Cubase. For the most part I do stick with the same kit, but there's been a few times it's been really handy just to flick between the different set ups to see how it changes the feel of the song. Apart from tweaking some rolls here and there, I never actually write drums in Cubase\Superior Drummer, I just dump my already written midi drums into it and fiddle around with the overall sounds and components a little to suit each songs vibe.

[Hook]

I'm moving back to DAW recording (after x years of very happy BR1600 use).

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't use DAW myself, in the car mostly with my br80. I prefer to play my parts, kit, RolandHandsonic or found stuff to bang on. I do like garage band and the roll the dice feature. I think the randomness of the rhythm give it a real drummer quality. Just  me and my archaic preferences.
Rock on!

[guitarron]

Ez drummer is a solid product. It comes with a lot of grooves you can tweak to your liking. I resisted the urge to upgrade to superior drums the last time the offered a deal- maybe next time

[AndyR]

I went for EZDrummer 2 bundled with the 6 Songwriter midi packs, I added a "3 expansion drum pack bundle" to add some kits. I went for Nashville, Southern Soul, and Vintage Rock.

(EDIT: Just remembered, I didn't buy the 3 pack bundle - that would be cheaper. usually.. EXCEPT, they've got a sale on, so the packs bought separately were cheaper than the bundle!)

I also have my eye on Americana, Classic Country and some others, but I think I have enough to be going on with for the moment.
I might buy some midi expansions to get more patterns/grooves... but there's loads in my setup already having gone for the Songwriter bundle.

@Bishmanrock - I was leaning this way already, but I decided to go with your "there's a crossgrade" idea... And now that I've got EZ 2 and found it does assignable outs too (rather than just a stereo mix) I don't see me wanting/needing to crossgrade in the near future.

@my idol is Jahia - I now have experience using it with a DAW (Studio One)...
HOLY WOWWOWOWWW!! Go for it.
I've got a "learning" project I'm working on in Studio One... At the moment it's 1:14 of rockish guitars, bass, and drums.
It was OK, but the drums were gonna be the problem for me (which was why this thread attracted my attention).

EZDrummer arrived yesterday, and in 2 hours I'd put drums on it that would have taken me 2 days using my old method on the BR1600.
And the SOUNDS!!!
It no longer matters on this little track that I recorded the guitars and bass not as well as I'd like - they weren't performances for a song, just parts for learning the DAW - but the drums lift it all to "hey these guys know what they're doing".
I'm now thinking I might take the project further - I need to do some vocal and keyboard work before I'm fully ready to do what I've been doing on the BR1600, and I might use this project to do that.

On the brooms - it does seem there's no brushed kits in the stock kits in EZDrummer?
But I've got at least two: one is in the Nashville expansion pack, another is in Vintage Rock.
Can't see one in Southern Soul - what? didn't they use brushes at Muscle Shoals??!
The Nashville one sounds real cool. I suspect some other packs have them (there's some folk and jazz packs) - really I want them all!!

@Hook - yeah, what can I say? LOL
I was never going back to a DAW, but... yeah, well

Current plan is to set it up to do what I was doing before but, hopefully, better.
In other words - aside from EZDrummer - I am NOT GOING TO USE MIDI AND VIRTUAL INSTRUMENTS

At first, anyway

I do need to upgrade Studio One from Artist to Professional for some of the things I do. And the most cost effective way to do that is to join PreSonus's "Sphere" subscription service... and that will give me EVERYTHING they do... and that will eventually suck me into trying to write symphonies, oratorios, film scores and such.

All I want to do right now is record some good ole songs, though - blues and rock, and pop (vintage), and country, etc... Just like I've been doing all along. I need pianos and organs, not much else. My first foray into the midi will probably be when I want horn sections or something.

With the keys etc, and even the drummer, I'll be recording audio.

With the hitting stuff - I've got shakers, a cajon, tambourines, all sorts... I'd love to be able to do it but I just can't hit that stuff in time or create grooves.
For ages, I've been going to Mrs R "what I really need is a drummer/percussionist who does what he/she is told".
I realised EZDrummer turns out to be that, and that's how I'm gonna treat it - it's going to generate me 2 tracks of audio (until I get into using multi outs), like I've just recorded the drummer's part (live, with my guide guitar and vocal, or piano, or bass... whatever) he can then go to the pub, I don't want him sat in the control room during the rest of tracking and definitely not during mixing!!

Anyways, I've learnt enough in the last week to know that with Studio One (and this EZDrummer) I can do everything I was doing before except FASTER and so much easier. I just got to make sure I don't get suckered into abandoning the "commit early" approach I had to use on the BR to make it work for me. With unlimited tracks and hundreds of plugins, and slip editing audio (holy shit!! that's come on a long way since I last used a DAW!!) it's easy to forget the performance and think - oh I can fix it after.

Uh-oh... Toontracks (EZDrummer) has just sent me emails... are they reading this as I type??!
They think I need the Country grooves and Soul grooves MIDI collections ... and I do think they could be right!! LOL
(Reaches for debit card...)

[T.C. Elliott]

@Hook - yeah, what can I say? LOL
I was never going back to a DAW, but... yeah, well

I still record on my 14 year old BR900 then transfer WAV files to reaper. Kind of the best of both worlds... sort of.

I do sometimes use VSTi other than for drums... but it's not as often as would probably be best to fill out my songs. It's a bit of a pain. But I get better results usually if I spend the time. Also, it'd be less painful if I did it regularly and got a system down.

[Woodlake]

@Hook - yeah, what can I say? LOL
I was never going back to a DAW, but... yeah, well

Hi Andy - new member here, but I've been lurking on the boards for a long time.
I just wanted to say thanks to you, as I've read through many of your previous posts regarding the BR1600 and picked up lots of great tips (and really enjoyed the songs you created using it too) - so thanks!

I'm just starting to get back into using the BR1600 after a long break, but just wanted to mention (like T.C. Elliott says), that you can work in a hybrid manner quite effectively.
I have the BR1600 synced via midi/SPDIF to Reaper and can transfer audio and midi backward and forwards in real time. It works really well. For the drums, this method lets you use EZdrummer to either play drums programmed on the BR1600, or you can compose something on the DAW and send it back to the Br1600, either as midi or audio (again in real time).

I enjoy using a standalone recorder, but it does have it's limitation (which TBH is a good thing!), but being able to use plugins or virtual instruments still makes it a viable option for me going forward - YMMV!

[AndyR]

Wow! Cheers guys.

I hadn't realised the midi/SPDIF between BR1600 and a DAW was possible - although I was suspecting it, there's SPDIF on the back of the BR and the PreSonus interface, I was discussing it with someone a while back to link two BRs, and I'd seen something in the Studio One documentation which made me go "I wonder?"

It's all gonna hinge on my next test(s) in Studio One - I haven't tried mics into the interface and DAW yet. If that gives me results I like then I'm very happy to do the whole thing on the laptop.

I already know stereo/mono input from my Yamaha desk work perfectly, give me the same results for the same or less effort. These are guitar amp and bass amp DI signals that the BR used to take via the mixing desk. No changes on my instruments/desk except the wires that went into the BR now go into 3/4 of the PreSonus interface. I'm having no issues at all with monitoring and latency.

Because that works, I know my piano and organ stuff will be fine too - they're just different channels on my mixing desk, they use the same route into the "recorder".

The big difference will be the mics going into the PreSonus interface. I had awful trouble with my old DAW setup, that's why I loved BR so much. But I suspect there will be no issue with this new setup - I suspect it will be easier than the BR once I've got my "patches" and effects chains built into a song template.

Assuming the sounds are good, I can't see any advantage for me in using a different system for tracking ... especially as the laptop and interface are WAY more portable and "set up anywhere" than the BR is!

However, it's really cool to know there are other options if I don't like the mic input results on the PreSonus kit.

I'm about to switch the BR on to find out exactly what settings are hiding in my "Bass Squasher" and "Git Squasher" patches, I'll be looking at the vocal patches I was using too. I used all these to effect incoming signals before they hit the "tape", and once I'd learnt to use them like that they saved an awful lot of messing around on recorded takes prior to mixing. I'm not sure I'll actually take this approach in a DAW, but I did learn it from someone who used Reaper almost exclusively, so who knows?

[Woodlake]

I look forward to hearing how the next/last round of tests go! I'm going to be sticking with the BR for the time being, but will follow your results with interest.
I'd be keen to know what settings you use for your custom guitar/bass/vocal input patches too - if you're happy to share them of course.

[AndyR]

I look forward to hearing how the next/last round of tests go! I'm going to be sticking with the BR for the time being, but will follow your results with interest.
I'd be keen to know what settings you use for your custom guitar/bass/vocal input patches too - if you're happy to share them of course.

I'm collecting all the settings I might possibly want from the BR right at the moment and sticking them in a Word document. I'll post them up when done (somewhere in Home Recording, there's a big tip and hints topic in there, but I might just put a new thread "AndyR's old BR1600 Patch settings" or something).