The Man With the Beautiful Eyes

[StephenM]

Here is a song I wrote in 2016 called "The Man With the Beautiful Eyes."  In particular it is about a man I used to work with but generally it's about these types of folks we often overlook...  I recorded this on a boss 1600cd....it literally kicked my butt because making the lyrics fit to the music I had in mind did not come at all easy for me....plus I just have a hard time with vocals... I am kind of wondering can anyone give me an idea how to get rid of the sssss sound.  I tried everything and finally just left it alone... Here are the lyrics   

See the man, old as the sands, hunch backed, downtrodden, taken for granted.
Worked all his life for minimum wages, not very smart but wiser than sages.
Humble means so it seems, but so full of kindness.
Look in his eyes, they're full of surprises
Look in his eyes, his love mesmerizes
See past his pain, you'll see the man,
You'll see the man with the beautiful eyes

I've heard the eyes are windows to the soul
It's true, I've seen it in his eyes
So full of light, dancing with love
Look in his eyes, they're full of surprises
See past his pain, you'll see the man
the man with the beautiful eyes
Look in his eyes if you dare,  Look in his eyes if you care
Look past his rags and his hair, look inside
The man's got a beautiful soul
See the man, old as the sands,
Wiser than sages, fools mock his kindness
Worked all his life for minimum wages, hunch backed,
down trodden, taken for granted
Look in his eyes, they're full of surprises
Look in his eyes, his love mesmerizes
See past his pain, you'll see the man,
You'll see the man with the beautiful eyes

[AndyR]

Cool song.

On the SSSSSSs

Overall, I don't think they're too bad on here - the reverb is picking them up a bit. On the BR1600 I tend to edit the reverb used on the lead vocal to be dark and dense, I also turn the tone down on it. (Btw, I always use a different reverb on the lead vocal. Sometimes I do use the vocal's reverb on any lead guitar - when I do that I'm thinking I'm putting them both in the same "space" in the listener's head... I tend to think about a spotlight on a stage when I'm mixing stuff).

On a second listen, yeah, I see what you mean. It's not too bad (and my studio monitors can be very unforgiving of this problem). I think if it was mine, the first thing I'd be trying is the reverb thing, it might be acceptable to me then and I'd just go with it.
But, you've got a bit of a problem if you want that bright reverb for other reasons! I just love DARK reverb on the lead vox, and this may be one of the things that's led me there over the years.

Anyways, the tricks I know/use for de-essing are:

1. EQ on the vocal track, two bands:

Reduce at 7KHz, Peak Equalisation, Q of 2.8, sweep the frequency slightly between 7 and 8 KHz to find the best.

Reduce at 10KHz, Peak Equalisation, Q 1.4

I have used these in the past, but haven't had to for AGES.

2. Learn not do it (or do it to an amount you can live with).

This is what I do most. Can be a pain sometimes.
However, are you aware that we all have more sss coming out of one side of our mouths?
That's what solved it for me when I learnt about that.
You need to do some test recordings to find out which side, took me hours, but you can find which is the better side to record.
For me, I always have the mic to the right of my mouth, I'm singing "across" the mic at about 45 degrees maybe.
At first this a real pain, I kept swivelling round when I got into the vocal... so early on I was setting up a dummy mic to sing at, and the live mic was to the right.

I still get the odd one, but I tend to fix those by riding the fader during mix down.

3. Side chain compression, a "de-esser"

I believe this is the studio way of dealing with a singer with a bad problem on it.
But we can't do it on a BR1600.
You run a copy of the vocal, eq'd heavily to bring out the ssss, through a compressor which you set to act on the other track.
So when the compressor sees a peak ssss on the copy, it ducks the original (doing the same as me on my riding the fader).
By the way, the ssss-y copy must NOT go to the mix!!
(Years ago, when I was using a DAW, I tried this method, and it made it worse... later on I found out I was letting the sss-y one into the mix)

[StephenM]

Cool song.

On the SSSSSSs

Overall, I don't think they're too bad on here - the reverb is picking them up a bit. On the BR1600 I tend to edit the reverb used on the lead vocal to be dark and dense, I also turn the tone down on it. (Btw, I always use a different reverb on the lead vocal. Sometimes I do use the vocal's reverb on any lead guitar - when I do that I'm thinking I'm putting them both in the same "space" in the listener's head... I tend to think about a spotlight on a stage when I'm mixing stuff).

On a second listen, yeah, I see what you mean. It's not too bad (and my studio monitors can be very unforgiving of this problem). I think if it was mine, the first thing I'd be trying is the reverb thing, it might be acceptable to me then and I'd just go with it.
But, you've got a bit of a problem if you want that bright reverb for other reasons! I just love DARK reverb on the lead vox, and this may be one of the things that's led me there over the years.

Anyways, the tricks I know/use for de-essing are:

1. EQ on the vocal track, two bands:

Reduce at 7KHz, Peak Equalisation, Q of 2.8, sweep the frequency slightly between 7 and 8 KHz to find the best.

Reduce at 10KHz, Peak Equalisation, Q 1.4

I have used these in the past, but haven't had to for AGES.

2. Learn not do it (or do it to an amount you can live with).

This is what I do most. Can be a pain sometimes.
However, are you aware that we all have more sss coming out of one side of our mouths?
That's what solved it for me when I learnt about that.
You need to do some test recordings to find out which side, took me hours, but you can find which is the better side to record.
For me, I always have the mic to the right of my mouth, I'm singing "across" the mic at about 45 degrees maybe.
At first this a real pain, I kept swivelling round when I got into the vocal... so early on I was setting up a dummy mic to sing at, and the live mic was to the right.

I still get the odd one, but I tend to fix those by riding the fader during mix down.

3. Side chain compression, a "de-esser"

I believe this is the studio way of dealing with a singer with a bad problem on it.
But we can't do it on a BR1600.
You run a copy of the vocal, eq'd heavily to bring out the ssss, through a compressor which you set to act on the other track.
So when the compressor sees a peak ssss on the copy, it ducks the original (doing the same as me on my riding the fader).
By the way, the ssss-y copy must NOT go to the mix!!
(Years ago, when I was using a DAW, I tried this method, and it made it worse... later on I found out I was letting the sss-y one into the mix)

Wow...thank you so much... I will have a great chance now of fixing this in the future...I tend to do alot of instrumentals but every now and then I get inspired in lyrics and so it gets frustrating... I have a good ear for music but the techniques of engineering are pretty rogue... I am thinking now of buying a Tascam 24 track...I hear it's really good and for about 500 bucks that is not a huge investment...

[Ferryman_1957]

This is the first of yours I have listened to and I saw from your bio it's one of your favourites, so I went straight to this one (will get to some of the others later). I really liked the song structure and feel here, it's quite different and I think the multiple guitar leads are great, they work really well. Really nice guitar sounds as well. The lyrics are very interesting and full of feeling, very insightful.

The vocals sound pretty good to me from a performance perspective but the issue is mainly the eq (and a bit of the ssss's). The ssss's aren't too bad but overall the eq is a bit muddy and biased towards the mids, so for me the vocals get a bit lost in the mix.

Andy gave you some good ideas. Maybe it's worth investing in a good vocal mike and pop shield if you don't have one.

Also, before you upgrade to the Tascam, you might want to investigate getting a DAW if you don't have one. I record all my individual tracks to a BR800 but then transfer them as .wav files to a DAW and do all mixing and mastering in the DAW. As much as I love the BR recorders, I find there is much more flexibility in mixing and mastering on a computer compared to what you can do on a BR.

Nevertheless, really great song and very nice work. Welcome to Songcrafters!

[tonyc]

nice rockin tune superb sound on the guitars , worth another listen ....cheers tony cee

[StephenM]

This is the first of yours I have listened to and I saw from your bio it's one of your favourites, so I went straight to this one (will get to some of the others later). I really liked the song structure and feel here, it's quite different and I think the multiple guitar leads are great, they work really well. Really nice guitar sounds as well. The lyrics are very interesting and full of feeling, very insightful.

The vocals sound pretty good to me from a performance perspective but the issue is mainly the eq (and a bit of the ssss's). The ssss's aren't too bad but overall the eq is a bit muddy and biased towards the mids, so for me the vocals get a bit lost in the mix.

Andy gave you some good ideas. Maybe it's worth investing in a good vocal mike and pop shield if you don't have one.

Also, before you upgrade to the Tascam, you might want to investigate getting a DAW if you don't have one. I record all my individual tracks to a BR800 but then transfer them as .wav files to a DAW and do all mixing and mastering in the DAW. As much as I love the BR recorders, I find there is much more flexibility in mixing and mastering on a computer compared to what you can do on a BR.

Nevertheless, really great song and very nice work. Welcome to Songcrafters!

Thank you Ferryman...sir... i have to admit I seldom if ever touch an eq knob...they kind of scare me... I am going to have to get over that.... thanks for the detailed review... it is really important... i put an awful lot of time into this song and I finally got to the point where I thought that was just the best I could do and moved on...but I really need these ideas going forward....my dilemma is that I like to do everything....drums, guitars, bass, engineer and the fact is I am not as skilled in each area as I would like to be or need to be to do better work... I have already picked up some great ideas from the site here...and everyone seems very positive and helpful even as I am sure sometimes we roll our eyes at something...I'm pretty sure though that everyone here goes through the same things...
DAW I have software that came with my Zoom R24 that allows it to be a DAW....and years ago i used CAKEWALK with a computer mic (LOL) and actually got fairly decent recordings but I was just recording my wifes piano and vocals...I did find it much easier to use in some ways....like in editing I could place lines for volume fading in and out etc....I need to get a better computer I would suppose and dedicate it to the studio... I also have a Boss ME-25 guitar effects that came with software and I haven't even tried that yet....LOL... I am sure I literally could spend every waking moment in my little studio...and once in a while I actually do....
Maybe it's time to try that DAW software...thank you...

[Frank53]

Good song and performance. Very descriptive of your subject.
Looks like you are getting some good advice on production. That 7-8kHz range is the right place to tame the S's. I also tend to cut everything below 40Hz on the vocal, and do some shelving boost in the 10 to 12kHz range, just to give it some air. Everyone's voice is different, so you have to see what works best for you. Something to experiment with.

[StephenM]

Good song and performance. Very descriptive of your subject.
Looks like you are getting some good advice on production. That 7-8kHz range is the right place to tame the S's. I also tend to cut everything below 40Hz on the vocal, and do some shelving boost in the 10 to 12kHz range, just to give it some air. Everyone's voice is different, so you have to see what works best for you. Something to experiment with.

thanks... I really need to learn alot about using eq and i think all this will help...

[Mike_S]

Yeah brilliant... you have got a really strong sound of your own. I really like the vocal and I also like the concept behind the tune, it's different and draws your attention. Very catchy too,,, super stuff.

Mike

[Flash Harry]

Ah yeah - nice track.

I like the lead guitar tone, it's right inside the mix and works really well. The vocal is good too, I like the way it ebbs and flows. 

Andy's your 1600cd man. He gets great tracks out of his.