How to edit vocals well?

[Capn_Gaz]

Hey everybody, this place is a great resource for people like me (who know nothing about using the micro br and recording in general!) and am wondering if the more experienced among us could give us some tips on editing vocals for a more warmer professional sound.
When ever I record myself it sounds thin and distant, almost cold sounding - this never fits in well with some of the quite impressive warm sounding guitar tones the micro brs cosm processor can give. I have no real idea what I can do to help.

Ive heard the onboard mic can give very impressive results when used properly, so I know i'm doing something wrong with my own vocals.
I have tried the default onboard effects myself which dont give a great deal of improvement, just subtle changes - I've also tried randomly altering settings in the effects patches options but as i dont know what im doing, it never sounds better.

Assuming i'm recording dry, how would you guys go about enhancing vocals on your own tracks?

Regards,

Gareth

[Greeny]

I love the in-built mic – for me, it's totally reliable, and produces GREAT results every time. So perhaps it's just a case of going through your recording process to try some different methods. Here's what I do (if it helps!)...

1.   I've used a number of different MIC effects. My favourite is 'Onboard1' (rich, natural sounding), but I've also used 'ForNylon' pretty successfully (which has a wider,more delayed sound). I've also switched the effects off and recorded dry with very nice results.

2.   WHERE you record will have an effect on the sound / tone. Bathrooms and Kitchens will add too much echo and coldness in some cases, so think about that too. Having said that, I've done vox in a bathroom for that very reason.

3.   This is a crucial one:  I always record with the input volume up to the max. Some people mess with the sensitivity setting, but I don't. I get pretty close to the mic, and hold the BR like a microphone. Now – this means you have to be careful with case cracks / pops, and you have to control your breathing and minimise 'peaking' on certain syllables etc, but once you get the hang of it, it's pretty easy to control. 

4.   For added warmth, you can also add some reverb afterwards (press 'track two' from the main screen and scroll right thorough volume and panning to the reverb screen).

5.   Finally, mastering effects also seem to help balance things out and give a more professional sound.

Good luck!!!
 

[jkevinwolfe]

Gareth,

Experiment with some of the Mic Effect presets while you have your music tracks behind them. The mic effects sound very different when the voice is sticking out of the music. Once you've found some sounds you like and figured out what you like about them, try modifying these in the User Mic Effects bank.

Another thing to consider is tweaking the system Reverb. You can adjust room type, delay time and tone or EQ. I find I like to tone down. This lets the voice and instruments stand out  above a rich, bassy reverb. Also try running your system reverb at 15 on the vocals.

Have you messed with the Enhancer in the mic effects? This enlivens some of the high end on vocals giving a more realistic presence.

As Greeny pointed out, Mic position has a lot to do with it. You can work the mic at 3 inches for a whisper to about 18 inches for shouting. If you watch really great singers on mic you're see how they work this distance well. It gives a more level sound and a breadth of presence.

There's a lot more than this, but that's a start.

Kevin

[AndyR]

I've recently found this site (from someone else's post on here):

http://www.recordingwebsite.com/articles/eqprimer.php

http://www.recordingwebsite.com/articles/

http://www.recordingeq.com/tipcurr.htm

There's loads of good stuff in here.

From my experience only (not taking full advantage of what's on those articles - I haven't read them all!), what you're describing needs three things:

1) Practice/experience on your singing and microphone technique - if you want a warmer vocal, the first place to work on what's coming out of your mouth and your distance from the mic. You can do it, but it takes time and effort.

2) Look at the eq primer article - loads of info in there about which frequencies to play with on all instruments. You'll find recommended EQ settings to improve or mess-up vocals. I do this stuff after the vocal performance is recorded, if it needs it. You'll probably need to get to grips with bouncing to achieve it:

a) record a vocal as good as possible to, say, TR4-V1
b) set up an effect on TR4 only
c) fiddle with the effect listening to the vocal on its own and with the backing (extra tip: if you master A<>B looping to repeat one line of vocal over and over again while you're tweaking, it saves a lot of stopping and rewinding!)
d) when you've got the effect you like, turn off all tracks except TR4-V1
e) bounce the effected vocal to TR4-V2
f) use TR4-V2 from now on (keeping V1 in reserve in case you change your mind later)

- because you've got an effected vocal, you're now free to move effects on to another track to process that track instead...

3) Number 3 is the most important, and you WILL NOT LIKE THIS ONE AT FIRST!!...  Those nice fat and warm guitar sounds are actually what's causing you trouble...

Electric guitars use up almost all of the frequency spectrum, especially when they sound really good to us guitarists - but a lot of what they use isn't actually much help for the guitar sound in the mix, and it walks all over your other instruments. You need to take stuff out of the guitar part to allow room in the mix for vocals, bass guitar, etc.

I spent years having trouble with this - until you address this side, even if you get a vocal you're half happy with, you won't be able to get it to sit with the guitars and drums. I blamed the drums for years - but it's usually the guitars.

You can use the same eq primer above to figure it out, but for some time I've been cutting the bottom end of all of my electric guitar parts after they've been recorded (something between -2 and -8 db), and sometimes a small cut in the upper mids if they're still harming the vocals.

Always do it after the recording - don't mess up your amp model settings - and you do it the same way as described above for effecting the vocal.

To start with, listening to the effected guitar on its own you'll think it sounds weedy and vile - nothing like what you intended. But when you bring the band up, it should sound just like you recorded in the first place.


If you're not using it yet, you also need to look at panning you guitars away from centre - that's another way of giving your vocal space.


For an example, listen to this thing of mine https://songcrafters.org/community/micro-br-b65/sooner-or-later-writingarranging-demo/0/. It's a songwriting demo. The guitars have not been processed because a) there's no bass, b) I'm going to re-record them anyway.

Notice:
A) They're quite meaty, reasonably "guitarist" friendly sounds. When I put the real ones on and the bass and everything else, I will cut their bottoms mercilessly. Doing that in this mix they would sound weak to my ears, but with the rest of the band they will produce the same "guitarist" friendly sound we are getting here.
B) You can't hear the vocal brilliantly because the guitars aren't processed (nor is the vocal btw) - but it's not too bad because there's no bass yet, and of the three guitars, two are panned hard left and right, and the one in the middle is quite low in the mix.
C) The vocal is louder than it needs to be because of all this (I don't care on this one because it's a rough guide vocal), but you still can't hear all of the performance...


Hope that helps Keep fiddling with it, you'll get there 

[Ferryman_1957]

More sage advice from Andy, many thanks for this. All  need now is some tiem to actually do some recording.....

Cheers,

Nigel

[Greeny]

AndyR makes a very good point (amongst many!)... namely, that panning is crucial to the overall balance and sound of a song. I always pan guitars left and right (sometimes fully, sometimes partially), leaving only bass and vocals in the middle.

[Geir]

My experience (I'm no expert) is that what matters most of all is distance to the mic !!! If I sing low vocals (either volume or pitch) I hold the MBR 3-6 inch from my mouth and tilt it almost 90 degrees or 1-2 inches above my mouth to avoid breathing into it. When screaming on the top of my lungs I hold it 10-50 inch away.

Try experimenting with this with all fx switched OFF until you get the best possible vox before experimenting with fx.

[Oldrottenhead]

another thing to consider is the volume of the music you are singing to. i turn the music down a bit to allow me to hear myself better and am more able to control my vocal levels avoiding peaking etc.

[hewhoiscalledj]

lots of great advice up there... the number one thing you can do to change how the recording sounds is to try recording in different rooms/locations. i'd try both large and small spaces, carpeted/treated rooms vs. hardwood floor and bare wall rooms, and see what you like best.

that built-in condenser mic is very detailed and will be greatly affected by the room you are recording in.

also, try a small touch of compression on the vocals as it helps to even out dynamics and can give your voice a touch of polish and fullness. definitely mess around with the reverb too. these suggestions are all free and I would suggest trying them all out before buying a fancy microphone and preamp (but that's the next pro-level step to take...)

[Kody]

This is all great advice.  One little trick~ I use a headphone amplifier when recording vocals...this way you can hear the whole mix and what it will sound like while recording your vocal track.  Without the headphone amp, I find it hard to hear and would often clip when hitting strong notes.  With the amp, you can keep the levels down and still hear yourself plenty loud eliminating the chance of clipping..