Can you help me understand the 3 band comp?

[Sprocket]

Compression has always kinda been lost on me...I owned an MXR Dyna Comp, but the damn thing was TOO transparent, I gave up on it and sold the damn thing.
Id like to think I get the idea...and youve reinforced kinda what I thought I knew.

In other words, if you set it too low, it will compress everything, instead of the nasty peaks.

If I go as low as it will go(I think thats -14 or -20) it makes that band louder and more pronounced...just the opposite of what seems natural, to me, atleast.

And Id really like to get a grasp on the time(ms) as well as the attack and what that can do for me?

[Blooby]

To me, compression should be as transparent as possible unless you're using it for a specific effect.

I am delving more and more into the mastering process, and while I am by no means an expert, I'm starting to find compression pretty invaluable, especially on vocals, drums, and acoustic guitar.  These are the instruments I deal with that have the largest dynamic range.

Take the human voice for a second.  If a song has a high and low register, it's hard to sing in the same dynamic range.  When you start turning down the threshold, you are squashing the upper dynamic range so the peaks aren't quite so peaky.  I'll also compress a bass or final mix to smooth it out (although the mastering section in the BR's takes care of that).  I tend not to compress distorted guitar or synths (depending on the patch) as their dynamic range doesn't vary much.

You can also boost with them (very noisy buggers usually) or play with the settings on a clean guitar to get that country quack/twang (the only overt, noticeable time I use a compressor).

I've been working on a mastering cheatsheet for myself.  I'm almost done with the first draft, and I'll be happy to post it.

Blooby

[launched]

I've been working on a mastering cheatsheet for myself.  I'm almost done with the first draft, and I'll be happy to post it.

Please do post it - It will work well with what I have been using (Ted's Drum Pattern Sheet and my MBR Track Sheet)



Sprocket  - Just as I suspected, you are modifying the Threshold setting. The lower the db setting, the larger decibel range it will compress. If you set it to -5 or lower, it will compress the whole wad, and depending on what is being recorded, It could get quite loud. And probably not sound good - Like a steady wall of music smacking you in the face.

The vocal algorithms have compression AND eq, which might be what you want. I use that sometimes...

mark

[launched]

...the compressor may not be the only adjutment you want on the bass.
Some EQ settings may be needed...

Just what I was thinking - Try the S09 Vo Comp patch and you will get compression AND eq. The compressor doesn't have a lot of settings, but it does work. If you insist on using the compressor in the Master or Line algorithm, I would deal with ratios first before messing with anything else. Do the EQ first and then compress to smooth out the volume bumps.

Mark

[64Guitars]

To properly explain dynamic compression would require some graphics, and I don't have time to create them right now. So, instead, I'll just refer you to some existing web pages that already contain graphics and do a pretty good job of explaining dynamic compression.

http://www.postaudio.co.uk/education/hardware/compression.html

http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/audio/pages/Compression.htm

http://www.azwebpages.com/bass/BassCompressionAudioSamples.htm

http://www.whereismyhead.com/lit/compression_faq/

http://www.harmony-central.com/Effects/Articles/Compression/

http://www.wikirecording.org/Compression

I'd recommend that you experiment with compression in Audacity because it will allow you to see what is happening to the signal, which will give you a much better understanding. Here are some pages to get you started:

http://www.homevideo101.com/audio-compression-guide/

http://manual.audacityteam.org/index.php?title=Compressor

[SteveG]

Nice links 64, thanks 

[Glenn Mitchell]

Regarding a comp/sustain pedal, I too find them confusing.
They have different terms than engineering uses.
My Boss CS3 has Level, Tone, Attack and Sustain whereas compression uses threshold, ratio, attack, release & output.

[64Guitars]

Regarding a comp/sustain pedal, I too find them confusing.
They have different terms than engineering uses.
My Boss CS3 has Level, Tone, Attack and Sustain whereas compression uses threshold, ratio, attack, release & output.

That's because they're designed as guitar effect pedals, so they use the more guitarist-friendly term "Sustain" instead of Threshold and Ratio. When you increase the sustain, you're basically lowering the compressor's threshold and/or increasing the ratio. This squashes the signal's dynamic range so that, as it fades away, the compressor boosts it more and more to keep the output level the same, thereby sustaining the note. The Attack control does the same thing it does on a studio compressor. And Tone and Level do exactly what you'd expect, which really has nothing to do with compression.

By the way, the BR-600 and up include a COSM compressor that models the Boss CS-3. It also has settings to model a MXR dyna comp, dbx 160, and UREI 1178. The Micro BR's compressor effect from the guitar bank has Sustain, Attack, and Level controls like the CS-3, but lacks the CS-3's Tone control.

[Glenn Mitchell]

Thanks 64G. So now more thing?
The Attack pedal has a Min/Max sweep rather than fast/slow.

The Wippinpost site says " Attack = The time, measured in milliseconds (ms), it takes for the compressor to reach its maximum level on the sound.
A fast attack can be useful for damping percussive peaks so the overall track level can be increased. Can also add punch to a track."

So if I INcrease the attack (=faster?) am I damping earlier or allowing more initial DB thru before damping.
It seems to me allowing more DB thru before damping would have more punch but this advice seems contrary to that.

[64Guitars]

The Attack pedal has a Min/Max sweep rather than fast/slow.

The CS-3 manual says "At its clockwise position, the attack sound is retained in each note". So, that means the Max position (full clockwise) gives the longest attack time and the Min position (full counter-clockwise) gives the shortest attack time.

The Wippinpost site says " Attack = The time, measured in milliseconds (ms), it takes for the compressor to reach its maximum level on the sound.
A fast attack can be useful for damping percussive peaks so the overall track level can be increased. Can also add punch to a track."

So if I INcrease the attack (=faster?) am I damping earlier or allowing more initial DB thru before damping.
It seems to me allowing more DB thru before damping would have more punch but this advice seems contrary to that.

When you increase the Attack control (clockwise), you're letting more of the initial transient of the signal through un-compressed because the compressor isn't responding to level changes as quickly. When you decrease the Attack control (counter-clockwise), the compressor responds more quickly to level changes, so transients are supressed.

Whether or not fast attack times add punch to a track depends on your definition of punch. TheWhippinpost seems to be talking about overall track level. If a track has a big dynamic range, then the overall level will be somewhat low because you have to adjust your levels to the peaks. Consequently, the track can get a bit lost in the mix. But if you compress the track, the peaks won't be as high, so you can raise the overall level of the track, allowing it to cut through the mix better. That could be one meaning of punch.

However, another meaning of punch suggests short duration as well as loudness. For example, a snare drum has more punch than a kettle drum. And a Fender Precision bass played in a slap 'n pop style has more punch than an upright acoustic bass played legato. So, in the context of a compressor pedal for guitar (like the CS-3), a longer attack could be said to give more punch to the sound of the guitar since it emphasises the short transients of the notes. Increasing the attack and decreasing the sustain creates a sound that's popular with country guitarists. It could be described as punchy.


If you want to learn more about compression, consider getting a copy of the book "Mixing Audio" by Roey Izhaki.

(Click image to go to Amazon.ca)

It has a whole chapter (65 pages) on compressors. Of course, it also covers other aspects of mixing such as monitors, phase. panning, equalizers, limiters, gates, expanders, delays, reverb, and more.

Or, here's a less expensive book about compressors, although I haven't actually seen this one yet.

(Click image to go to Amazon.ca)