What's the best way to reference mixes in both MONO & STEREO using a BOSS unit?

[Super 8]

Looking to continue doing some A/B mix referencing switching between MONO & STEREO with my BR1600. Anybody got any thoughts on the best way to go about this? At the moment I'm taking a single line out from the left RCA output on the back of the BOSS and going into the 1/4" input of an active mono speaker. I have all my tracks panned hard left. To switch & hear the mix in stereo I'm muting the mono speaker then switching to my regular paired studio monitors which I have rigged up to get their feed from the output of the BR1600's second headphone output. Thing is, I then have to change all the pan settings back to where they were originally (or else everything would be coming out of just my left stereo studio monitor which would kind of defeat the purpose of the test!) Is this the best way to set up a MONO and STEREO A/B reference test station with a BOSS unit or does anyone have any better ideas how to go about this? I admit it's a bit of a 'faff' as things stand! 

[cuthbert]

Have you tried keeping your panning and levels intact, and then bouncing to a single track? The bounced track will be mono, but should contain everything in the stereo mix, but of course, in mono.

Switch to the v-track you just wrote to (with the other tracks muted), pan that v-track to center, and you should get mono playback of your mix.

[Super 8]

That's clever thinking cuthbert and I'll definitely try that as part of my tests however, one of the main reasons for my A/B mono/stereo reference tests is that I am toying with 'the idea' of ACTIVELY mixing in mono for my next musical project - just bouncing to mono kinda 'fixes' things if you know what I mean! This idea (as it stands) is to tweak my forthcoming mixes and try to get them sounding as good as I can coming out of one speaker then open it up into stereo at the end of the mixing session, do some judicious panning where needed and bounce the results down at that stage (in stereo!) ;-)   

[64Guitars]

Have a look at page 51 of the BR-1600 owner's manual - "Registering and recalling mixer settings (Scene)".

[Super 8]

"AAHHH!" (Penny drops!) ;-)

[Super 8]

Yes, that would be the way to keep my pan/reverb settings in the memory - THANK YOU!

Following on then ....

a) Is taking a line out from the left RCA output on the back of the BR1600, feeding it into a powered single speaker then panning all tracks hard left the best way to go about monitoring (and mixing) in mono with my BR1600 would you say or is there perhaps a better way to do it?

AND

b) Can you explain how I do what I've been doing with an external DAW (Reaper) but just using the EQ built into the BR1600? I had been trying to discover a way to Low Cut/High Pass Filer (HPF, right?) & High Cut/Low Pass Filter tracks JUST using my BOSS but couldn't work out how to (still can't!) For example: It's really straight forward cutting everything below 100Hz on a vocal using this DAW software .... how might I go about doing that within the BR1600 would you know? Sounds like it SHOULD be really easy to do but, for some bizarre reason, I STILL can't seem to get my head around what it is exactly that I need to do in order to use the Boss's EQ to High & Low cut in such a way (hence ending up having to export everything out to a PC DAWto do it = 'a faff!' I'd much rather just keep everything within the box and just export my final stereo mixdown). ANy thoughts on this one?      

[AndyR]

a) It's easier than that. Get the thing into Bounce mode, then arm a mono track - playback is mono, regardless of where your panning is at or whatever speakers you have attached. It "folds down" the stereo image into mono, same as playing stereo cassette in a mono cassette player used to (or a stereo LP on a mono record player with a converted stylus).

I always use this method to check my stereo mixes in mono (to look for phasing issues before committing to the stereo mix, that sort of thing). You can mix to that mono track if you want.

HOWEVER, if I really wanted to mix to mono, I would pan everything centre. Then I'd work out the proper levels and fader moves for a specifically mono mix (they will be different than the levels and moves for panned material on a stereo mix...)

b) You can't use the standard channel EQ for that, it only supports peak or shelf EQ, not hard filters. What you need to use is one of the effects algorithms (multi-channel, or something? can't remember) ... that one contains a Lo-cut (hi-pass) filter. I either use it when recording the track wet or during bounce down. It's excellent either way - eg a bass track with everything below 70Hz or so removed is a lot more usable and sits better in a mix (which can in turn be louder). Do the same to vocals - it seriously reduces the audibility of unwanted rumble, foot-stomping, heavy-breathing in the final mix.

Note that the mastering tools also contain a lo-cut for you to do it it to the whole mix. Basically, we can't really hear anything below a certain frequency (50Hz or so, I think) and vinyl never used to support it (needles jump out grooves with too much energy down there) ... so cut all that stuff out and leave more headroom for stuff you can hear.

Alas, there is no hi-cut (low-pass) filtering on the BR1600. I imitate it on mastering by using the mastering eq to apply a high shelf at as high a frequency as possible. Bear in mind a shelf eq curve will effect lower than the frequency that you set, so set as high frequency as possible and don't cut too much (I set it max, I think that's about 20K, and then cut until I can hear it, then back off a bit - I seem to recall anything more than -4db or so starts adversely affecting cymbals as far as I'm concerned).

I can't remember exactly what it is, but there's a similar vinyl/human-hearing argument at the top end that indicates a hi-cut on the master would seriously improve most amateur mixes and give them more audible headroom. I think it might even be as low as 16K? (that vinyl supported - nothing on a record below 50Hz, nothing above 16Khz... but don't quote me!!) Unfortunately, the BR doesn't have the top cut facility as far as I can tell, though...

[Super 8]

WOW! Thanks SO much for the above info Andy! That's exactly what I've been hunting for - CHEERS! See when you say: '... that one contains a Lo-cut (hi-pass) filter. I either use it when recording the track wet or during bounce down'. The situation I'm in this end of late is that the song projects I am working on, in general, utilise EVERY channel - there's rarely a free main channel to bounce to. Let's say I want to filter out everything below say below 70Hz on my bass track. Because there isn't a free main track to bounce to I would need to bounce (in real time) to a spare virtual track then move this track back to the channel I have allocated for my bass (either by over-writing the original or putting this newly filtered version on the next available virtual track on the channel I have dedicated for bass in my song project). The bottom-line: It's all a bit of a faff! Is there an easier way to achieve the same result would you know? Is it perhaps possible to just bounce directly to a 'behind-the-scenes' virual track where you actually want your track to end up? It can get quite confusing when you've got a load of pre-recorded tracks like this that you want to process!   

[Super 8]

HOWEVER, if I really wanted to mix to mono, I would pan everything centre. Then I'd work out the proper levels and fader moves for a specifically mono mix (they will be different than the levels and moves for panned material on a stereo mix).

Nah, I'm not looking to mix specifically in mono. I'm just looking to create single mixes that translate well regardless of the playback format (be it MONO, STEREO or even SURROUND SOUND). I'm not looking to have numerous different mixes for each song but rather one mix that just works 'across the board' as it were. These (hopefully!) definitive final mixes will no doubt be in STEREO (but will playback equally well if heard in say a mono environment).

Incidentally, I was in a shopping mall the other day and they were playing The Beatles - as I wandered the precinct I became aware of how, quite frankly, RIDICULOUS ("sacrilege!") the stereo separation was depending upon where I was situated in the mall. I can't remember what song specifically but there was one that, at one point, all I could hear was just drums and just a very feint vocal in the distance (which was kinda cool but probably not what Mr Martin had intended!) Just one personal example of a widely spaced stereo mix obviously NOT working in a real like environment. I dunno why it's taken me so long to pick up on this side of mixing but, now I have, I've actually become quite obsessed by it all! As GREAT as The Beats are, I don't want my mixes to end up sounding as 'confused' as this collection of their songs did in that shopping mall. If my songs ever get to be played over the tannoy in a shopping mall (what an aspiration eh?) I'd prefer for folks to be able to hear the whole song as nature intended not just component parts of it depending upon where you're situated at any given time in the listening environment. Know worra mean?      

PS: That's a TOP tip about putting the machine in 'Bounce' mode then arming a mono track - CHEERS!

[AndyR]

WOW! Thanks SO much for the above info Andy! That's exactly what I've been hunting for - CHEERS! See when you say: '... that one contains a Lo-cut (hi-pass) filter. I either use it when recording the track wet or during bounce down'. The situation I'm in this end of late is that the song projects I am working on, in general, utilise EVERY channel - there's rarely a free main channel to bounce to. Let's say I want to filter out everything below say below 70Hz on my bass track. Because there isn't a free main track to bounce to I would need to bounce (in real time) to a spare virtual track then move this track back to the channel I have allocated for my bass (either by over-writing the original or putting this newly filtered version on the next available virtual track on the channel I have dedicated for bass in my song project). The bottom-line: It's all a bit of a faff! Is there an easier way to achieve the same result would you know? Is it perhaps possible to just bounce directly to a 'behind-the-scenes' virual track where you actually want your track to end up? It can get quite confusing when you've got a load of pre-recorded tracks like this that you want to process!   

Yep, it is a faff - I've been known to do exactly what you say on the bass. Record it on say, V1, affect it with a bounce to another track, then copy that back to the bass's channel on V2, use that in the mix. Having said that, I'm typically up to V10 or so by halfway through overdubs and sub mixes!!

However, for certain things, eg bass , I was doing it so often with exactly the same settings everytime, I decided to trust it and record the bass part with the effect on it. Same with electric guitars. I have a "Bass Squasher" effects patch and a "Guitar Squasher" effects patch that I put in place when recording those.