Help needed with MIDI

[Johnny Robbo]

Right... one for the MIDI geeks: I've got a bit of a problem with MIDI. It's a bit long winded but here goes...

I use Cakewalk Music Creator as my DAW these days and I use various VST instruments including a suite of Cakewalk Studio Instruments (drums, strings & electric piano) and (among others) a free VST download called ORGANized Trio, a brilliant Hammond organ. This is the one which is giving me the problems just now.

When I want to create a backing track for a song that's a bit involved - like the cover of Mr Blue Sky that Kenny & I did recently, I'll have a look round the web for a free midi version (or a Guitar Pro file) of it which I then import into Cakewalk. It appears in Cakewalk & plays fine just using the native synths on my sound card, with each instrument on a separate midi track. I then set up a VST instrument (like the Hammond organ) and move the relevant midi information from it's original "native synth" track to the midi track of the VST instrument I want to use.

Most of the time this works absolutely fine, but I'm working on a chunky, rock version of Ultravox's "Vienna" at the moment and I want a big, dirty Hammond organ sound (think Jon Lord of Deep Purple) to play all the synth parts. Therein lies the problem... The synth parts play fine in the native synth tracks (those which automatically appear as the default sound card midi synth players), but when I move the midi data to the Hammond organ track, I get silence.

This is not unusual & does occur now and then. My usual fix, rather than just dragging & dropping the midi track from the native synth midi track to the VST midi track, is to go into the Piano Roll View on the native synth track and select all the notes. I then copy/paste the notes en masse to the VST in the Piano Roll View, and this usually works fine. Not this time, however. I know the VST midi track is working because...

a) When I click on the piano notes at the left hand side of the screen, they produce the expected sound, and...

b) If I go through the midi data in the piano roll view, and replace each note one at a time (delete the existing note and replace it with an identical one), the new notes play. To do the whole piece like this would be a solution, albeit a bit of a laborious one.

Here's a screen shot showing my problem & if anyone has any solutions I could try, I would be grateful beyond words



Thanks in advance,

John.

[hooper]

Here's hoping for a possible simple fix:
Try doing everything you're doing up to the point where the notes should be playing (but they don't)

Then, Save the song file and Close Cakewalk.

Re-open Cakewalk, re-load that song file and see if the notes will play now...(?)

The theory being... (I don't know all the technical terms)  Perhaps Cakewalk is not recognizing all the notes that were imported but will have another chance to check them out when you reload Cakewalk and the song file.   

If that doesn't work, I'll keep thinking about it...

[Mike_S]

I hope i am following properly. In the event that I am, here's what I would try.

Rather than trying to get to the bottom of the mystery, I think I would use the pencil tool (if cakewalk works similar to Logic it should have one) and basically replicate all the imported midi notes from scratch. To do this accurately i think i would leave all those imported notes where they are and say just so i could use them as a guide i would start a few lines up on the grid and just draw them in again, tweaking the lengths so they are the same. Then when done, delete the not working ones and en masse group and move all those new ones down to the correct lines

You might have already tried this and doesn't work, but i think that's where i would start.

Good luck!

Mike

[Johnny Robbo]

Here's hoping for a possible simple fix:
Try doing everything you're doing up to the point where the notes should be playing (but they don't)

Then, Save the song file and Close Cakewalk.

Re-open Cakewalk, re-load that song file and see if the notes will play now...(?)

The theory being... (I don't know all the technical terms)  Perhaps Cakewalk is not recognizing all the notes that were imported but will have another chance to check them out when you reload Cakewalk and the song file.   

If that doesn't work, I'll keep thinking about it...

Thanks Hooper... I should have said in the original post that I had already tried this.

I hope i am following properly. In the event that I am, here's what I would try.

Rather than trying to get to the bottom of the mystery, I think I would use the pencil tool (if cakewalk works similar to Logic it should have one) and basically replicate all the imported midi notes from scratch. To do this accurately i think i would leave all those imported notes where they are and say just so i could use them as a guide i would start a few lines up on the grid and just draw them in again, tweaking the lengths so they are the same. Then when done, delete the not working ones and en masse group and move all those new ones down to the correct lines

You might have already tried this and doesn't work, but i think that's where i would start.

Good luck!

Mike

Thanks Mike... yeah that's kind of my "plan B" if I can't get it playing any other way. It's just niggling me though... I can see that the notes are there... but they defiantly refuse to play. It's sort of becoming a battle of wills between me and Mr. Midi at the moment and I don't want him to win 

[hooper]

Have you tried looking at this via the MIDI Event List view...?

Take a careful look at the parameters of the notes that are acting up, before and after you do your work-around and see if you notice anything change there... 

[Geir]

I suppose you've tried to add new notes to the imported track and that they won't play either?

Have you tried to  create a new track with the organ and copy the notes from the one that doesn't work?

[64Guitars]

I'm not sure why you're getting silence but it seems to me that you're performing some unnecessary operations.

If I understood your message correctly, you're doing the following:

1) Import a midi file found on the web.

2) Create a new midi track and assign a VST instrument to it.

3) Copy the midi note data from one of the imported tracks and paste it into the new track.

If that's correct, then I don't see any reason for the new track and the copying and pasting of midi note data. Surely, you can simply re-assign the synth for each of the imported tracks? I'm not familiar with Cakewalk but I'm sure it must have a simple way to do that. Maybe hooper can guide you on that?

[Johnny Robbo]

I'm not sure why you're getting silence but it seems to me that you're performing some unnecessary operations.

If I understood your message correctly, you're doing the following:

1) Import a midi file found on the web.

2) Create a new midi track and assign a VST instrument to it.

3) Copy the midi note data from one of the imported tracks and paste it into the new track.

If that's correct, then I don't see any reason for the new track and the copying and pasting of midi note data. Surely, you can simply re-assign the synth for each of the imported tracks? I'm not familiar with Cakewalk but I'm sure it must have a simple way to do that. Maybe hooper can guide you on that?

Oh, now there's a thought for future reference. Thanks, pal This is just the way I've always done it and it works (usually). When you use a VST in Cakewalk, you get a pair tracks associated with that instrument - a midi track for the data and an audio (output) track, where you put your fx like reverb & so on. I've never tried re-assigning one of the midi tracks that the original midi file generates to a VST - I just always add a VST in the way I would if I was going to sit and programme the notes myself. I then just copy the note data from the "native" synth track (which is only a single midi track - no audio output track) on to the midi track for the VST. I honestly didn't know there was any other way of doing it - I'll check that out next time I do something with a midi file I get from the web. Thanks for the tip - you may just have saved me some considerable time in future

I suppose you've tried to add new notes to the imported track and that they won't play either?

Have you tried to  create a new track with the organ and copy the notes from the one that doesn't work?

Yes I added new notes in the midi track that was silent and they DO play... that was the confusing thing. And I tried to copy the "silent" notes onto a new track and they were still silent. I have, however, found the solution... <FANFARE> ...

Have you tried looking at this via the MIDI Event List view...?

Take a careful look at the parameters of the notes that are acting up, before and after you do your work-around and see if you notice anything change there... 

This was where the problem was lurking! I've never been into the event list before as I've never had cause to, but sure enough I looked at the difference between the silent notes and the new ones I'd added, and the silent ones were all on midi channel 8, whilst those which played fine (the new ones I'd added) were all on midi channel 1. I've changed the parameters so that all the notes are now midi channel 1... and they all play correctly!

Thanks so much for the input, chaps. This one has had me stumped for days - I wouldn't have solved it without you, I owe you all a pint!