Yamaha AW2400 or AW1600 anyone?

[hewhoiscalledj]

So my next purchase will surely be a larger multi-track recorder and I'm leaning heavily towards the Yamaha AW series of recorders. Anyone have or use one of these bad boys? I'm avoiding the whole PC based DAW and all the pitfalls of working this way as I have a steadily growing contempt of computers... I swear they cause more problems than they actually solve and if nothing else, add nothing but trouble and waste time when the creative process is involved.

I had considered the Roland, Boss, Tascam and Fostex recorders but my research has led me to the Yammy. Still, I'd love to hear other's experience or suggestions.

[Kody]

I haven't personally tried the Yamahas.  I see your list doesn't include Korg...You'll definitely want to check them out! And Akai.....their MPCs are worshipped by Hip-hop producers, I think their multi tracker is pretty expensive though...Have a fun journey, my friend~I look forward to seeing what you go with...

[64Guitars]

The Yamahas are probably very good recorders. However, they don't have a drum machine and I'm not sure how the effects compare with Boss and Zoom. Have you considered Zoom? If I was in the market for a new recorder today, I think I'd buy the Zoom HD16. It offers quite a lot of great features compared to other recorders, and for a much lower price than most ($599 US). Have a look at these pages:

http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/products/hd16_8/index.php

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HD16CD/

and download the manuals here:

http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/download/manual/english.php

If you don't care about a drum machine and you don't mind spending more money, the Yamahas are probably better. But, if your budget is limited and you need a drum machine, the Zoom HD16 is hard to beat.

[hewhoiscalledj]

No need for a drum machine or guitar effects; just a minimum of 8 tracks recording simultaneously at 24bit, actual faders, useable preamps (w/ enough clean gain) and a smooth button pushing process (which computers just dont do well.)

The runner ups in my research are the Tascam 2488neo  and Korg D3200 (sorry I left that out Kody!)  Yamaha has them beat with automated faders (on the AW2400) and an expansion slot for adding all sorts of other goodies. It can also be used as a control surface for software based DAWs even though I'm trying to avoid touching a computer.To be fair, the AW2400 costs considerably more. I'm a little concerned that as soon as buy it, Yamaha will put out a newer/better model but oh well.

[64Guitars]

No need for a drum machine or guitar effects; just a minimum of 8 tracks recording simultaneously at 24bit, actual faders, useable preamps (w/ enough clean gain) and a smooth button pushing process (which computers just dont do well.)

It can also be used as a control surface for software based DAWs even though I'm trying to avoid touching a computer.

The new Zoom R16 looks good:

http://dms.dolphinmusic.co.uk/page/shop/news_story/a/news_id/e/3102

• 16-track playback
• Simultaneous recording of 8 tracks
• High-definition 24-bit/48kHz linear PCM recording in WAV format
• Acts as a control surface
• Acts as a USB 2.0 audio interface
• 8 balanced combination XLR 1/4" inputs
• USB host function allows you to use USB storage device (external hard drive, USB flash drive, etc) for quick data transfer
• Two R16s can be chained together via USB for 32 playback tracks and simultaneous recording of 16 tracks

It's expected to be available in June or July and sell for $399 US.

[Kody]

Looks pretty cool~ I like the combination XLR 1/4 inputs...I'm thinking there's going to be a slew of multitracks coming out in the near future...More geared toward PC connectivity, embracing the computer recording revolution~ Control surface functionality, etc... Man, I wish there was a way of knowing if Roland/Boss are working on anything

[64Guitars]

I'm thinking there's going to be a slew of multitracks coming out in the near future...More geared toward PC connectivity, embracing the computer recording revolution~ Control surface functionality, etc... Man, I wish there was a way of knowing if Roland/Boss are working on anything

Roland seems to be concentrating their efforts on hardware for their Cakewalk division. Their latest products are called "V-Studios" and they combine control surface / audio interface hardware with SONAR VS DAW software.

http://www.sonarvstudio.com/

While these products are interesting, I don't like the idea that the computer is an integral part of the system. For me, it's essential to have a recorder that is fully functional without being chained to a computer, and that includes a drum machine and lots of great effects. However, I'd like to have the option of connecting it to the computer as a control surface or audio interface as Zoom has provided in their R16, HD8 and HD16. I hope that Roland will offer similar capabilities in their future recorders. And I hope that they're not going to neglect the BR series in favour of these new Cakewalk V-Studios.

[hewhoiscalledj]

Dang, that Zoom does look good, especially at $399!!! That never came up on my radar but now I'll have to dig in. What concerns me is the difference in price vs the Yamaha I've been eying. Plus it uses the SD cards which I now have over a dozen thanks to my MicroBR.

I wonder what makes up that huge gap in price. The AW1600 goes for just under $1k while the discontinued AW2400 still goes new for $1500. Could the preamps really be that much better? Clearly I have some more research ahead of me but I'm somewhat rooting for that Zoom unit due to the insanely low price point. Hell, just imagine all the other goodies I could get with the cash i save... new mics, new monitors, the list goes on...

thanks for the heads up guys. I'm trying to build up my perfect mobile studio so I can record other bands at their own choice of locations. I just need more inputs and preamps!

[64Guitars]

Dang, that Zoom does look good, especially at $399!!!
Hell, just imagine all the other goodies I could get with the cash i save... new mics, new monitors, the list goes on...

Yeah, for the price of an AW1600 you could buy two Zoom R16s and chain them together for 32 playback tracks and simultaneous recording of 16 tracks! And you'd still have $200 left over for other goodies. Not that anyone needs 32 tracks and simultaneous recording to 16 tracks, but it's an interesting comparison.

One feature I really like is the USB Host connection. I've mentioned in these forums before that I'd like to see this on future Boss recorders as it would allow us to backup our songs to an external hard drive or USB flash drive, for example, without using a computer. You could also store a library of WAV samples and sound effects, backing tracks, etc. on an external hard drive and import them to the recorder as needed without a computer. As far as I know, the Zoom R16 is the first recorder to offer a USB Host connection.

I generally prefer recorders that use flash memory for storage rather than a hard drive. They are more robust and the storage capacity is essentially unlimited since you can buy as many memory cards as you like. And the R16 can handle SDHC cards up to 32GB!

Unfortunately, there are a couple of deal breakers for me. First, the R16 has no drum machine. You said you don't care about a drum machine, so the R16 might be ideal for you. But for me a drum machine is essential. Secondly, the R16 has no MIDI connectors, so there's no way to synchronize it with an external drum machine or keyboard. I suspect that it might support MIDI over USB, but that's not enough for me. I need to be able to program drum tracks without having to use a computer. And I'd like to be able to synchronize my Yamaha keyboard with the recorder so I can utilize its 16-channel sequencer to layer keyboard tracks without using any recorder tracks. I do this now with my BR-864 and I would miss that capability if I bought a recorder with no MIDI connectors.

Although they're not deal breakers, there are a couple of other things I wish they'd done differently on the R16. First, the level meters only have four segments each. I'd have preferred a higher resolution than that. Secondly, the Zoom HD8 and HD16 have a rotary control above each track fader which serves several purposes. By pressing the SELECT switch, the user can choose the parameter that will be controlled by the rotary controls - Pan, Rev Send, Delay Send, EQ Low, EQ Mid, and EQ Hi. Unfortunately, the R16 doesn't seem to have these multi-purpose rotary controls. There is a rotary control above each level meter, but I think those are just input gain controls.

I think the HD8/16's multi-purpose rotary controls are a great idea and I'd like to see this idea expanded to include effects parameters. Imagine, for example, if you could select a preamp and have each of the eight rotary controls assigned to one of its parameters - Volume, Bass, Mid, Treble, Presence, Master, Bright, and Gain. Or choose the Flanger effect and have the rotary controls assigned to its parameters - Rate, Depth, Manual, Resonance, and Separation. That would make it so much easier to create your own custom patches.

Here are some pictures of the R16 and HD8/16 which you might find interesting:

Zoom R16:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_xnBKPY_t0YM/SXSsLC82sEI/AAAAAAAACKo/qP5AKofFmsE/s1600-h/zoom-r16.jpg

Zoom HD8:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/samsontech/related_docs/HD8CD_top.jpg
http://s3.amazonaws.com/samsontech/related_docs/HD8CD_slant.jpg

Zoom HD16:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/samsontech/related_docs/HD16CD_top.jpg
http://s3.amazonaws.com/samsontech/related_docs/HD16CD_slant.jpg

[hewhoiscalledj]

I'll be looking into this new wonder box soon. But I have to agree that lack of MIDI connections and the limited controls could be the deal breaker. I dont use my drum machine much as I mostly track live drums at this point but I plan on doing more than just standard rock band setups so having that option is important. I have do have keys/synths to think about too.

What I love about the AW2400 is that it's basically Yamahas digital mixer (01x series) wrapped in a bigger box with recording capeablity. So it has the same preamps (i need 55db of gain or higher.) I noticed that a lot of new multi-purpose mixers these days only offer 40-50db of gain which means maxing them out when using certain mics like an SM57. This translates into less headroom and more noise while pushing the preamps. The AW2400 also has slots to add expansion cards for added inputs and other things. I'm just waiting to find a used one at under $1k. While I'm waiting of course, it doesnt hurt to see what else is out there.

I keep running into people who tell me to just go with a laptop DAW since it's so much more flexible and upgradeable. But I honestly find that computers, especially laptops, are way to vulnerable to all sorts of headache causing glitches. It just takes all the fun out of the creative process. Anyway, thanks again for the headsup and I'll keep my eye on that Zoom.