Planning your song arrangement with a BR1600CD (track count)

[Super 8]

Just wondering how all you BR1600 folks out there build your song projects. As you'll know, I've recently acquired one and have been beavering away in my spare time trying to figure out how to use & get the most out of this unit. I have a number of 'works in progress' on the go but my question today is about planning tracks ie: how to? For example, I have one song that's a fairly big arrangement by my standards and will require a bit of 'Tetrus-like jiggery pokery' (more parts than tracks!) I'm guessing it's best to plan out such a production in advance rather than just diving in and potentially boxing oneself into a corner. Here's the source tracks I need to accommodate somehow ...

- LEAD VOCAL
- LEAD VOCAL II (doubled tracked)
- BACKING VOCALS (x4)
- ACOUSTIC GUITAR (possibly stereo)
- HARMONICA
- BASS GUITAR
- LEAD ELECTRIC GUITAR
- XII STRING ELECTRIC GUITAR
- BANJO
- TAMBOURINE
- MARRACCAS
- SAMPLED DRUM BEAT (stereo)
- SAMPLED STRINGS PART (stereo)

I'm aware that this BR1600 unit isn't actually at 16 track machine technically due to the fact that tracks 9-16 are in stereo pairs. This being the case, from a 'recording in' perspective, it's a 12 track machine (8 mono tracks and 4 stereo). That said, there's all those 'behind the scenes' V-tracks which seem great for stacking alternative takes but you can only play back & commit to ONE track at a time come mixdown. I'm sure there's lots of ways to use them for bouncing to free up new track (as well as not having to overwrite the originals either = cool!) Anyways, I'm still learning this end and have a long way to go. Anybody care to shed some light on this topic and how to get the best from such a track count? I realise the BR1600 has a very large track count compared to other units in the BR Series but, compared to computer recording & a potentially infinite number of tracks if you have enough RAM/HD space (which is what I've been used to) it's still rather limited where track availability is concerned. Best to plan song projects in advance right? As always, most interested to hear your thoughts on this. Thanks in advance folks!       

[Farrell Jackson]

I don't have a Boss machine but I have do have a Fostex VF160 16 track. I think the same process for planning out the best track usage would be similar for any project with limited available tracks. On the Fostex I always keep the bounce receiving tracks, 13/14 and 15/16, open in case I need to do a sub-mix by bouncing some tracks together in order to free up others. Most times the 16 tracks will suffice so I use them all but on occasion I need more. When that happens I choose tracks that are similar to EQ or effect for bouncing. In your track list above the percussion (tambourine and Maracas) would fit that category for me. You could also bonce the two lead vocal tracks together to one or just use a doubling effect on the initial take to save a track. I've had up to 30 tracks using this method but you have make sure your bounced sub-mixes are good mixes. That's where the V tracks can be real beneficial.  If you copy tracks to the V Tracks you will have them in case a day or two later you don't like how a sub mix is sounding you can recall the V tracks and have a redo.

That's more or less how I plan out my track usage but generally I don't think too much about it until I run out of room.

Farrell

[chip]

I just keep going till I run out, then bounce to BR1200 11/12 v2, you can add more by switching the V tracks to 2, then record some more stuff on those empty V tracks, then bounce again and they all end up on 11/12 V3, then m aster if you wish to 11/12 V4. The 1200 pretty much does all this bouncing for you, so you don't need to keep switching/ looking for a pair of tracks to bounce/master too. See this.https://songcrafters.org/64guitars/BR/Tutorials/V-Tracks_and_Bouncing.html

I always( for now) use all the tracks for audio as I use drum machines for the rhythm, I find Br's drum programming tedious, and I have also used the loops you mentioned but find them equally tedious. By the way I usually hook the drum machine ( Boss DR 3) up with midi, record a backing guide track, record a guide guitar track, add vocals etc., then go back and play the drums real time adding fill, stops and whatever, this works very well for me. Everything I do is pretty much one take, I never use the V tracks for alternative parts, I like it to be spontaneous, not to worked out and a little rough round the edges. Like I mean it.

[Super 8]

Awesome replies! Thanks very much - that's been a great help folkjs. CHEERS!!!

[AndyR]

Aha!

I've actually been recording today!

Here's what I do on the 1600:

I very rarely record stereo (maybe a keyboard, or a guitar from my modellor and I want the stereo effect - usually panning delay - off the modellor).

I use the Boss drums, so that's track 15/16 spoken for until I've completed the drum program and recorded it to audio. BUT, the virtuals of track 15/16 do get used for keeping copies of things if necessary.

I record everything on tracks 1-8 and then create sub-mixes (bounces) on tracks 9/10, 11/12, 13/14. I happily use up virtuals like nobody's business - even on 9/10, you only need a enough virtuals there for the final mix and any mastering you want to do.

At the moment, in today's recording, I've used virtuals 1 and 2 for tracks 1-8 and 11/12 and 13/14. And this is ALL guide parts to get a rough arrangement for me to work on the drum part tomorrow. All of these guides will be replaced (and deleted if I need the space). In fact, virtual layer 1 needs to go - I copied to 2 and did some copying and pasting audio to insert 8 bars in one place and 4 bars in another. I did this to the guitar parts and all the vocals before I worked on a bass part.

When I've got a drum part, I'll do this:

Track 1 gets a guide vocal
Track 2 gets a guide bass played to the drums

That gives me 6 tracks (2-8) to start building the thing. I do things in layers, creating stereo submixes as I go. Eg, in this case, the guitars won't be too complex (for me) and I can probably do most if not all of them in 6 tracks. I might put a rough keyboard on a stereo track so that I've got a reference to play and mix against.

When I've got my 6 guitar parts, I clean them all (remove all the clicking before and after the playing), then I create a stereo submix onto 11/12 or 13/14. I do all the compression, low-cut, EQ, and sometimes reverb, that I'm going to want with this lot in the final mix.

When I've made this submix, I can clear down tracks 2-8 (move on to the next virtual) and start again with another set of parts.

Eventually I end up with:

Drums (stereo)
Guitar submix (stereo)
Keyboard submix (stereo)
Backing vox submix (stereo) - this one is often built from several submixes itself
Bass (mono)
Lead vox (mono)
Any lead instrument (mono)

All I have to do then is mix these together for the final mix.
If any submixes are really naff, I can redo them from the original parts.

Doing it this way, I can use different reverb and delay/chorus/doubling settings on the different types of instrument.

Really, all I'm doing is creating submixes and locking them down (automating) like you would in a DAW like Reaper.

I've never used ALL the virtuals on 1600 project (I've come very close!), but if you do, you can copy the project, delete all the mono takes and keep the submixes - you're ready to add more then! (I did this several times with the MBR).

[Super 8]

WOWSER! Thanks AndyR! Great insights there - thanks so much! Re: "I clean them all (remove all the clicking before and after the playing)" ... How do you do that??

[AndyR]

WOWSER! Thanks AndyR! Great insights there - thanks so much! Re: "I clean them all (remove all the clicking before and after the playing)" ... How do you do that??

I do it the old fashioned way like the recording studio junior used to have to after the band, producer, and engineer had gone home!

I use AUTO PUNCH IN/OUT and record silence over them. I use the scrub tool to find where to start and stop.

If you've got 6 tracks of overdubs over, say, 3 choruses... that's quite a bit of work - make sure you have a nice coffee/tea ready!

[Super 8]

Ahh, I see. The 'Scrub Tool'. Another thing to investigate! That said, I feel I'm (slowly) getting to grips with this machine. It's quite intuitive. If things go to plan, come the end of the week, I might even have the first fruits of my sonic efforts with it (to unleash upon an unsuspecting world, LOL!)  Thanks again for putting up with me on here over the last couple of weeks folks! By rights the questions should at least start to slow down from here on in (although there'll no doubt be a fair few more before my first mixing session is done!)

[bruno]

Planning tracks? The only plan is that there is no plan:-)
Seriously, when I press the red button, normally there is no song - it develops along the way!!!
B

[Super 8]

The only plan is that there is no plan:-)

EXCELLENT ADVICE AMIGO! Go with the flow ....