Drum machines

[bruno]

There has been some discussion on the Mandocaster thread - so I thought I'd bring up my views/feelings on that as a separate thread.

Well I really don't like drum machines. I really don't like them at all. I've tried, but they always sound unreal, a bit plastic. I looked into buying a BOSS/Alesis drum machine, but the sample file sizes are tiny, so made me wonder if this was the reason they sound so thin. I understand the flexibility of being able to program your own beats - but it always sounds like a drum machine to me. I understand the need to use them, and folks have to work with what they have, its just that I'm not a fan of them. Many tunes have been produced by Songcrafters that sound great, although I have to listen through the drum machine parts - that may be just me. That's no criticism of the work that has been done, but 9 times out of 10 my first though is drum machine.

Drums are very organic, and are one of the most analogue part of a band. They change their quality on where they are hit, at what angle, and at what force. Most top quality piano samples have this variation built in, a different sample is play in line with the attack, volume - it makes it sound more real. I suspect this is why early drum machines sound so one dimensional - to my ears anyway.

64Guitars has suggested Hydrogen as a better sounding tool - I must admit to not having tried it. I know Tod (Rata-tat-tat) produced a track where I couldn't tell that a drum machine had been used. However, I suspect part of that is the drummer in him being able to program it to play it like a real drummer would. Others use software such as eZDrummer which I believe are more 'realistic', and have a lot more human feel about them.

I myself have been using loops for quite some time. There is a compromise, as you never quite get the beat that you are after, and often have to search for something close. Also, sometimes the loops don't join 100%, so you can sometimes hear a transition artefact. However, it is a real drummer playing - and I think that comes across in the end result.

B

[Pete C]

I know how you feel Bruno - I'm fed up with using the loops on my BR600 and to be honest, when I am in the mood for recording a song, the thought of having to trail through the loops trying to find something that fits puts me off the idea.

The problem for me is if I found something that sounded better it'd probably be too complicated to use.  Any ideas on something that sounds good but is simple (and I don't mean a drummer !) ? 

[Blooby]

I can't say enough great things about Addictive Drums.  I believe you might be able to export files from it as standalone software, but I'm not sure as I use within the DAW. It's ridiculously powerful and sounds great.

[chip]

I know how you feel Bruno - I'm fed up with using the loops on my BR600 and to be honest, when I am in the mood for recording a song, the thought of having to trail through the loops trying to find something that fits puts me off the idea.

The problem for me is if I found something that sounded better it'd probably be too complicated to use.  Any ideas on something that sounds good but is simple (and I don't mean a drummer !) ?  

Too right.

Since getting into all this the drums have been a constant nightmare for me, you only need to read my posts and drums pop up in most of them. As I pointed out in the Mando thread and countless others the only BR that seems to work pretty well as a drum machine is the one in the BR80, it is logical, it starts at zero, you can pop fills and stuff in there quite easily compared to say the 1200 ect. The 80 also seems a little more realistic than the other's too.

I use the loops too Bruno, but, due to the non zero start on the 1200 it's a pain also, they do sound better though, but are a vast time consuming hassle and something I can't stand doing.

As I mentioned in the mando thread the DR3 is the drum machine that works best for me at this time, the SR16 wasn't to bad but this one is much more songwriter friendly and you can get it to sound reasonably natural, of course it's still a drum machine but it's the best one I have used yet, and it's taken me what seems an eternity to find something that is user friendly straight out the box. Am I jumping for joy? Well no, I never will be until I either play the drums myself or get someone to play for me.

Looking back to when I first started recording, I can't really say anything has got much, much better in the drum dept, everything else has improved no end, but the drums are a constant never ending puzzle. It does make me wonder why Roland start at one instead zero.Does the BR800 start at one too? And if it does why is the BR80 so different to the rest?
 

[Blooby]

Looking back to when I first started recording, I can't really say anything has got much, much better in the drum dept, everything else has improved no end, but the drums are a constant never ending puzzle.

In the DAW world, it has improved mightily.  It still may be tedious at times, but the flexibility and sounds are crazy good.

[Gnasty]

Just like Blooby, I use addictive drums and they' sound awesome to me. EZ drummer looks like it's pretty good too because they both actually are samples from real drums. Real drummers are actually using these programs for their digital kits because they don't like the default samples for their digital kits. I can't post the videos that I've seen them do this because I'm on my phone right now.

It took me a bit to figure out addictive drums, but now I can make loops faster and in different time signatures and there is different sounds for the snare and you can you can also raise and lower the intensity of your fills and filter them too. You can change the brand of your kit and the sound of your drum kit 1 million times different anyway you want. It's crazy good. Drums are just like vocals. When they are dry they sound flat and crappy. EQ, reverb and other modifications make it sound real and better. No drum kits sound the same on any of your favorite artist albums.

I totally agree that nothing beats a real drummer but for one who just likes music and knows nothing about drums, they would not tell the difference. I've told people that my ukelele songs were done with a classical guitar just to see what they would say, and they believed me lol I know that we are fussy as musicians but in the end the mere mortal listener does not care.

[alfstone]

The problem for me is if I found something that sounded better it'd probably be too complicated to use.  Any ideas on something that sounds good but is simple (and I don't mean a drummer !) ? 

Simple. Band in a Box, used with its RealTracks.

Real drums played by real musicians in the styles YOU decide.

Alfredo

[IanR]

I started using EZ Drummer a few months ago.

I started a post on it.

https://songcrafters.org/community/index.php?topic=21711.0

I agree with others who are tired of going through the BR800 drum tracks process and before it with the MBR.  I find it really tedious.

I am no drummer so I need lots of help and this software gives me lots of options and flexibility. Its based on real samples of a real drum kit. However, I can edit what is being played, including the pieces in the drum kit and the hits, etc.

As an example, I used it in the last song I posted. 

https://songcrafters.org/community/index.php?topic=22309.0

I think there is trial version available and its been reviewed a lot on the web, youtube, etc.

Ian

[ODH]

I'd like to stick up for drum machines that sound like (vintage) drum machines, (as opposed to ones that try to sound like real drummers).  I'm a bit of a vintage drum machine geek and a lot of the music I make tries to get that sound.  Where would Visage's Fade to Grey be without the classic Roland CR-78, for example.  On iOS there's some pretty good sims (DM1 for example has a lot of great vintage drum machines, (except it doesn't work on 8 at the moment)).

Things do get a bit more tricky when using acoustic kits, then you have to really think like a drummer (how many hands and feet do I have, and what are they doing?).  With a bit of thought I can usually get somewhere close to what I want.  I've not used EZ drummer or others so I can't say about those.

I've never owned a Boss BR machine, but I have to admit I can really spot those drums a mile off and I'm not a big fan.  Funny because for years (~15) I've used a Boss DR-5 Dr Rhythm which I find sounds pretty good to me, albeit nowhere near up to modern standards.

[chip]

The problem for me is if I found something that sounded better it'd probably be too complicated to use.  Any ideas on something that sounds good but is simple (and I don't mean a drummer !) ? 

Simple. Band in a Box, used with its RealTracks.

Real drums played by real musicians in the styles YOU decide.

Alfredo

Alfredo. Is that the drums on demand people you are talking about?

I have a drums on demand cd that I use in the BR1200, but it's a pain to work with.