What to do..

[bruno]

So - I do the occasional open mike - my green Fender Hotrod is a bit to heavy to get on and off stage quickly, although I love its sound. Last one, I'd though I'd use my little Peavey Valve King (class A - all valve) - however it sounded loud enough, but horrible boxey. I want to travel light for open mikes - so what to do? Looking at amp sims (although these are never good on clean sounds), new small amp (but good sound = £££), live with it (urg) or fix the peavey.

So - on fixing the Peavey, stock speaker is poor me thinks - I plugged in a 2x12 Marshall cab - and it sounds good, but I don't fancy lugging the Marshall Cab around! So - any suggestions for good 8 inch guitar speakers - was thinking a celestion at £25 approx (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Celestion-Super-Guitar-Speaker-Ohm/dp/B003UGUZQK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1379260537&sr=8-1&keywords=celestion+speakers+guitar), don't know if this is a good or bad speaker though - but any suggestions for anyone who's done this? Good brands, effectiveness etc?

[AndyR]

Umm... "boxey"

Before you mess with speakers, look at adjusting the tone controls. When I got "boxey" on stage it was often fixed by changing from my usual tone settings... On this amp it was often lowering the mid control a tad - but do you have such a tone control on a Peavey Valve King?

Another thing was, "boxey" occurred at gigs where my amp wasn't getting mic'd up. Was your amp mic'd up? The boxeyness isn't so much the amp and speaker as how it's coping with filling a bigger space than you're used to. With my amp, what was coming out the speaker was OK, it's just that some frequencies weren't powerful enough to travel very far in the air. It just needed reinforcing by going through the PA (this was a 1x12 valve combo, btw).

And then, you won't like this... ummm... no proper experience of this myself, just gut feeling and "internet knowledge"... but a LOT of gearhead-guitarists will say - 8" speaker??! What?!?! Well, there's your answer!! You're not going to get much more than boxey when you take that out of a living room!!

Note that a lot of these people are people who expect their rig to hit the back wall and make a "big" sound without out the aid of the PA, so they swear by using 4x12 cabs and killing everyone in the vicinity

I don't actually agree with them on needing that much, but I think you might need more than 8" (your experiment with a 2x12 tends to confirm it). The 8" speaker's not moving enough air on the lower frequencies, and probably the higher ones. The amp/combo has probably been designed/tuned to sound good in a shop/living-room. So when you turn it up in a gig-space and the other sounds kick in (other instruments and audience), those frequencies, there at the speaker, don't have the power to get across the space and reach your ears, and... mids is boxey on a guitar sound. (On a recording/mix, this might be JUST what it needs, but it's not very pleasant to play or listen to in isolation).

I suspect that, if you can't adjust the tone on the amp, or get it mic'd up, then you probably need bigger speaker(s). Having said that, there might well be 8" speakers giving a more rounded sound, but it needs to be more rounded in your ears in the venue, and that means trying different ones until you find one that works (and it won't work in every room, I guess).

I'd start by going the tone control and "mic me up" route, if I was you. Also, remember that the non-musicians in the audience aren't offended by boxey as much as you are.

You do have other options in each venue - moving the amp a bit, turning it in different directions, is it on the floor or up on some beer-crate/wotever... is it close to a wall behind it or to the side? All of these things affect how your amp sounds in the room that you place it.

Personally, I wouldn't even start a hunt for an 8" speaker that is capable of doing the job of 12" speaker(s) (overcoming the room/environment). I don't know, but I strongly suspect that that hunt could be expensive and might prove ultimately fruitless.

[bruno]

Andy, many thanks for the response.

The amp as a combo has never really sounded that great (not sure why I bought it - think it was cheap, like £110 new, class A valve 5W ). It has a tone control - and even eq'ing on the way in - is a very coloured sound. You are right about 12 inch speaker though - I had to re-wire (of sorts) to get a plug in to the Marshall cab, and clean through the marshall, it sounds amazing - through the stock speaker, it sounds dead and dull. However, I'm aware that this is a mine field. I could spend £200 on a speaker, for it to sound exactly the same. The cab wont take a 10 inch, let alone a 12 inch - so unless I rebuild the cab, its spend and time for an uncertain return. I could turn it into a head, however I've already got a JMC900 head that never gets used! I may do an A/B recording so that you can see what I mean.

This is the amp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2s3A2Re58Y

[AndyR]

Ah, that's a relief - I wasn't sure how much you aware of speaker size... and I was thinking "Oh no! I'm not sure you're going to get what you want, or if it's even possible".

Actually, on that clip, even with the mic stuffed right in the grill, sounded a bit, umm..., "interesting"!

I have a couple of small valve amps:

I've got a Vox AC4 with a 10", that sounded a bit boxey when we moved to a new place (and it's way too loud before breakup for me). Sounds very cute in the right circumstances, but I don't use it much...

I've also got a Laney CUB 12 - that is 15W with a 12" speaker. I love it, but don't use it on recordings. There's also a CUB 10 - 10" with simpler controls. I went for the 12 cos it was more versatile (and has a >1W input). Now the 10 sounded fabulous - kicks out loads of bottom end - and it's "the" blues/rock, rock n roll sound. I probably ought to have got that instead in hindsight. I know of some guys on other forums who use them for gigging.

Both the Laneys are really light, and I see the 10 can be had for just over £160 or so at the moment.

[bruno]

Actually, on that clip, even with the mic stuffed right in the grill, sounded a bit, umm..., "interesting"!

:-) - I was thinking of 'filing it;, however through the 2x12, it sounds lush - I rip the amp out and get a 12 inch speaker. From our discussion, I found this ... perhaps the way to go :-)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDP7xIfqOWQ

B

[bruno]

This is what the Valve King sounds like through the Marshall cab - this is a dilemma. Am seriously considering rehousing with a 12 inch speaker. Am using the Nova pedal for some verb and echo else clean through

:-)

[Hook]

How about one of these

[Hook]

or maybe one of these



 

[bruno]

:-)

[bruno]

Ordered the celestion today - was only £21, may sound exactly the same - but worth a punt. Will report back the results :-)
B