when you begin recording a song, do you have any idea as to what it'll be like?

[Greeny]

I generally write songs on an acoustic guitar - apart from a rare few that started on piano. Even my recent ones with garageband piano additions were written on an acoustic guitar.

I need to have a song COMPLETELY written before I go anywhere near recording it. That means the whole song structure and lyrics - i.e. ready to be 'performed' acoustically. I tend to have a lyrical idea / theme that I'm working to, but sometimes I'll come up with a different direction in response to the chords / vibe of the song.

Then comes my favourite part!

Because I have the song fully written, I can sing it and imagine it in my head. I'll start imagining how I'll record it... what the guitar tones / parts might be.... how stripped down or elaborate I want to make it... what extra instruments like strings or trumpets are going to sweeten the basic arrangement etc etc. So many choices! By the time I press record, I know at least 80% of what I'm going to do. Pretty OCD, eh?! It makes my recording time quick and efficient, because I don't spend hours floundering around for inspiration etc. The other 20% is an exciting and spontaneous zone of happy accidents and random experiment. Jemima's Kite songs are a little easier for me because I don't have to worry about the vocal melody or lyric... I just get the guitar parts down. They're still fully formed before I record though.

Part of all this is how I listen to other songs. Ever since I was a kid, I used to like listening to the production and layering of songs and what was going on behind the vocal. The Beatles and ELO were good things to be obsessed by in that respect.

Weirdly, I never worry about bass, and it's always the last thing I add. I just know I'll find what I need and it will turn out how I want it. I love adding the bass parts now... it feels like a little holiday and very liberating musically. More instinct than technique in my case. Note: I record all my bass parts with the same patch, and the volume / tone controls on full. No variations!

So, I'm definitely in the 'fully formed song' camp. Most of the time, anyway. There are always occasional exceptions to the rule!

Anyway, it doesn't matter how you get there, as long as you do :-) 

[64Guitars]

i get an idea grab whatever instrument or noisemaker is at hand and exorcise the idea/song/noise out of my system and onto my microbr as quickly as possible, then it's straight on to the next song (if you can even call them that).
 sketches, yeah sketches that's what i do.

I sometimes come up with an idea while playing my guitar and I don't want to forget it so I record it right away. However, I would never post that recording as a finished song. Instead, I'll come back to it another day and re-learn the forgotten riff, chord progression, or whatever from that recording, then try to build a song from it. I'll keep working on it until I'm satisfied that it's complete. Then I'll practice it until I can play it well enough. Only then will I start recording. And it will be a new recording project, not additions to the sketch recording.

I think it's important to learn a song and practice it before starting to record. It's fine to use the recorder as a memory aid to capture your ideas before you forget them. But you should then refine and elaborate on those ideas to create a proper song. Then you should practice that song until you can play it well before recording it.

Having said that, I have to admit that I seldom do original songs. Most of the original sketches I've recorded never get completed because I'm not very good at coming up with complimentary sections for a song. For example, I might have a cool chord progression for the verses, but I can't think of anything for the chorus and bridge.

I mostly do covers, so learning the song first and practicing it before recording is absolutely necessary. I'll usually learn just one part at a time, practice it till I can play it well, then record it to a track. Then I move on to the next part/track. If I tried to learn all of the parts ahead of time, I'd forget most of them by the time I started recording. Learning, practicing, and recording just one part at a time is more manageable.

So, yes, I always have a good idea of what the recording will be like before I start it. However, it never turns out exactly how I imagined. For example, the guitar tones I use in the recording are usually different than I had originally imagined them. But I usually like the result better anyway. And I'm constantly evaluating my recording as I record each track. Often this can lead to changes in the song structure or the way that I play certain parts. It can also lead to the addition of parts that I hadn't originally thought of.

[Oldrottenhead]

we are so different 64, but that's why i love you 

[Oldrottenhead]

i have this idea/concept/thingy first take has the fucking heart soul everything. all takes thereafter are pasteurised/sterilised/tamed/boring.

[Greeny]

i have this idea/concept/thingy first take has the fucking heart soul everything. all takes thereafter are pasteurised/sterilised/tamed/boring.

Totally agree. I hate re-doing anything. The feeling degrades with each take, so it needs to be right first time. I've rarely re-recorded anything - its always onwards and upwards to the next one. So although I'm pre-prepared, the recording must be 'in the moment'. No more than 2 takes for the vocal!

[64Guitars]

we are so different 64, but that's why i love you 

You're right. We are very different in our approach to music and our ideas about what makes a great recording. I think the magic of a song is in the details and the layering and intertwining of many complimentary parts. That's why I love prog rock. It never gets boring because there are so many interesting details and complex parts complimenting each other or contrasting in an interesting way. I love multitrack recorders because they allow me to build complete songs comprised of many parts. Without that capability, my recordings would be boring and I'd never post them.

i have this idea/concept/thingy first take has the fucking heart soul everything. all takes thereafter are pasteurised/sterilised/tamed/boring.

Sometimes the first take turns out best, but not always. And you'll never know unless you make those additional takes.

In any case, the first take of a recording shouldn't be the first performance of the song. Songwriting and recording are two separate things. Songwriting takes time. Songs should be refined and built up before they are recorded. And they should be practiced so that they can be performed well.

Imagine that you had a gig coming up at a local venue in a few weeks. Which would be the best approach?

1) Write some songs ahead of time. Refine those songs to make them as good as you can. Memorize the lyrics and practice the songs as much as possible so that you will be prepared for your live performance at the gig.

2) Don't worry about it. Just go to the gig totally unprepared and start strumming some chords and making up lyrics as you go for maximum spontaneity and soul. Write all of your songs right there on the stage in front of the audience.

Which would likely get the best response from the audience? I think it's obvious that the second approach would be a complete failure. Sure, you might get lucky and hit upon a few inspired moments. But most of your performance would likely be rubbish. Even the most professional of musicians couldn't create good music in that situation. And the audience expects you to be prepared for the gig. It would very quickly become apparent that you're not prepared at all and they'd start booing and throwing things.

To me, making a recording is very much like playing a gig. You need to be prepared. That means working out exactly what you're going to play and sing ahead of time and practicing it until you can perform it well.

[Oldrottenhead]

first take first take firastqq gwake furst haje thirst hake

prog rock is shit unless you r in the 70/60/50s

[Oldrottenhead]

Imagine that you had a gig coming up at a local venue in a few weeks. Which would be the best approach?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8-WHslFhbU

[Geir]

After reading this I just realised what's missing from my recordings ....... Actually learning the f#¤%ng songs firtst

Seriously ... I should ... I usually write and record my songs the same day. And they would indeed benefit from some more run-throughs before I recorded them, but then asgain I can't help thinking that they would loose something .....  I do however usually have an idia of how I want them to sound, and they sometimes get close to that, but other times the songs seems to have a life of their own and end up quite different from what I imagined.

There are a lot of exeptions to the above tho

[Greeny]

The biggest benefit of 'living' with a song for a while is that you get a more intimate feel of how the vocal wraps around the music, and how certain lines should be sung or emphasised. It's always the vocal that makes or breaks a song for me. I need to know I've done the best I can. It may not be perfect, but I've given it what I can