"Night", but need some advice.

[Pharoah246]

Hello everyone. So I just finished this song "Night" a few days ago, however I'm worried it sounds a bit too much like the song that inspired it sonically, which is John Mayer's "Wildfire." I'm willing to make some changes to it if it does indeed sound too much like Wildfire, as I'll be playing this live soon. However, I do believe that there is a fine line between sounding like a song and sounding too much like a song. The lyrics aren't what's bothering me, it's the actual guitar playing/riffs. In terms of structure, this song is very different from Wildfire, and really the main thing that's pestering me the most is how the second verse is played with the absence of any guitar at all, just like Wildfire, but can you say that that's never been used before in a song before Wildfire? Either way, I would prefer your constructive, honest input, but anything at all is appreciated!

EDIT (9/4/13 11:26): So I've decided to indeed make some changes to the song. First and foremost, I changed the opening riff to something that's 100% my own. I think it fits better, and more importantly, I like it better than the previous. Second, I took out the noise at the beginning, which I think now was just pointless to have in there. Third, I added in some of my own guitar licks down the line that also add to originality, as well as support the vocals. Finally, I redid the vocal take entirely. I felt that the last one wasn't my best, and so I redid it in hopes of achieving that. I think I did pretty well, but tell me what you think. Some of the things I did NOT change, though, are the percussion track and the guitar-absence in the second verse. In my opinion, those entities in the song are very generic, and can't really be pegged too hard for use, especially when the percussion track is totally homemade by me with a guitar to imitate the sounds of a real percussion track, and whereas the percussion track changes and adds onto itself at various times in Wildfire, it remains totally and 100% the same throughout my song. Also with the guitar -absence, I guarantee that hasn't been the first time that's been used in a studio version of a song, and while Mayer uses this element three times in Wildfire, I only use it once. With these changes, I believe I have distanced myself far enough from Wildfire now to feel comfortable performing Night and feeling good about myself doing it But as always, tell me what you think!

[Geir]

First of all : welcome and congrats on a great song!

I hadn't heard the JM song before so I listened to your song with "fresh ears" and thought it fabulous.

Then I listened to the JM song and I still think your song's great. I do see the similarities tho. Some parts more than others. Like in the start it's kinda like your melody is a mirror of the other song. Where he goes up you go down and vice versa. Whether you should change it or not is a tough one. I really like it as it is and if you're happy with it I say leave it. We'll always find songs that can resemble songs we write and until there's a chance I get published I just don't bother too much about it anymore

[Pharoah246]

First of all : welcome and congrats on a great song!

I hadn't heard the JM song before so I listened to your song with "fresh ears" and thought it fabulous.

Then I listened to the JM song and I still think your song's great. I do see the similarities tho. Some parts more than others. Like in the start it's kinda like your melody is a mirror of the other song. Where he goes up you go down and vice versa. Whether you should change it or not is a tough one. I really like it as it is and if you're happy with it I say leave it. We'll always find songs that can resemble songs we write and until there's a chance I get published I just don't bother too much about it anymore

Thank you for the quick reply!


As of right now, I'm leaning towards just leaving it, as I can make minor tweaks that can distant it farther from Wildfire. For the majority of the song, though, it will remain the same. I could mix things up when playing it live, too, so things can get different there as well. But all in all, at least until a significant amount of people tell me they sound too similar, I think I'm just going to leave it.

[Hilary]

First welcome and the song sounds just fabulous.

I didn't know the said song but I've listened to it on Youtube and listened to your song. If I were you, I would redo it - you don't want to sing it out and have people come up to you saying it reminds them of the Wildfire song. I played a song and had someone come up to me and say it was like a song that Billy Connolly had written - I've never played the song since.

It's not just the section without the guitar, it's the percussion and to me the melody at the beginning of your song sounds like the guitar riff at the beginning of the Wildfire song. Even the beginning bit is noisy like Wildfire. You are clearly talented so it shouldn't be a problem redoing it. Ultimately, of course, the decision is yours but what make us stand apart as artistes is our originality.

[Oldrottenhead]

i dont know john mayer's song wildfire, i will check it out. but i must say what a great song this is. reminds me of paul  simon. but i think you own it. braw tell yer maw and welcome aboard.

[maxit]

wow - what can I say to a wonderful song like this one! only that I dont mind at all if it sounds like some other song, I love it! it has just a personal approach instead and a sound that immediately catched my attention. Brilliant ! and furthermore, what is that music lover that upon such a beauty could say "oh, but it is like wildfire..." - welcome aboard instead

[Hilary]

With these changes, I believe I have distanced myself far enough from Wildfire now to feel comfortable performing Night and feeling good about myself doing it

There you have it in a nutshell - that's all that matters, you are comfortable with it and feel good about it.

[Jarle]

This is a good song. Yes it resembles the mentioned JM song(which I didn't know), but who cares? This is well played and composed.

JOA

[AndyR]

I don't know the JM song, and I didn't hear the original of yours, so I'm not even going to worry about checking his out!

Like this a lot. Same as orh, I thought Paul Simon... dunno mebbe it's something in the vocal delivery combined with the rhythms, but I much prefer your voice anyway

The track reminds me of other things - Ry Cooder maybe, and some others from way back I can't put a name to right now...

What I'm trying to say is this - Look at it this way, John Mayer sounds like a bunch of other people when I listen to him, he's got influences and heroes etc, and he had to figure out how to do his own "thing".

Personally, I don't worry about "arrangement" elements - eg dropping a part like a guitar for a section. If we worried about stuff like that then no one would be allowed to make any music, it's all been done before.

I also don't worry too much about riffs unless they are THE song themselves (er, Whole Lotta Love, that sort of thing). In this case, I'd say none of the riffs in this recording are recognisable "carrying the song" riffs, they're all what I'd call accompaniment/arrangement (and they echo the vocal melody). If I ended up using similar guitar playing to accompany one of mine later I would feel little guilt or worries! (Mebbe you had a "song carrying" riff in the earlier version - but I doubt it).

For me, this song is in the lyric and vocal melody, the rest is backing/arrangement. If any of the lyric or melody was substantially lifted from elsewhere, that's when I'd start worrying...

NOW, "sounding like", I think I understand one element of what you mean. Sometimes when I'm singing or whatever I feel "oh that's how so-and-so did it". A melodic phrase, or a pronunciation, maybe. It'll make me pause and think whether this is a valid thing to do - is it a nice little nod to a hero, or are people going to go "oh you're trying to sound like so-and-so" (implying that I haven't quite managed it!! ). If I decide I don't think I can carry it off, I leave it out. If I think it's ok, I leave it in.

And then, you're always going to have people coming up to you comparing you or your songs to something or someone else. My response was usually "that's nice" and either "that's what I was trying to do, thankyou" or "I've not heard it, I'll check it out...". One of the bass-players I had would respond to comments like that with "That's nice, now why don't you go tell someone who gives a sh1t?" (And then he'd spend weeks nagging me to change it!! )

Very few of us will ever manage to create something truly original. We are all observing and restating in our own way and hopefully adding something of our own to it - that's what artistic folk do, all of them, any media. And we all have to start out by, well, "copying", trying to recreate a mood we were given by what we observed that moved us. With songwriting and performing songs, that'll come out in "sounding like the music that moved us" sometimes.

I think you've probably done the right thing in this instance - you have to do what makes you feel comfortable and honest. But when you are comfortable with what you've created, happy you didn't intentionally nick it, do not listen to ANYONE telling you it sounds like something else (unless of course you've just sold a million of it and the people talking to you are the legal representatives of the people who own the rights to the something else!!! You'll probably have to do a deal then.)


Keep creating what you want, how you want, to the best of your ability - don't worry too much about whether the guitar licks you're using were inspired by something else, etc - the more you create, the more the things that you've assimilated will come out as recognisably "yours" anyway.

(By the way, is it my crappy speakers, or have you got a bit of clipping on some of the guitar parts? Watch out for that - it's more important than whether someone else has played parts like that before. Yep, checked in my headphones, there's some clipping here and there. But wow! Love the space in your mix and how that percussion part works).

This is a fine song, and you've got a superb voice there. Love it.

[AndyR]

Just checked out Wildfire (just to check I'm not missing the point )

You got NO WURRIES with this version now, and I doubt you did with the original. If you hadn't mentioned John Mayer, no-one would have known, even if they knew the song. Both songs are so "trad" folkie-type song structures that no-one could complain. And if you do it live, and a big JM fan says "hey, that Night was cool, sounds a bit like Wildfire...", just take it as a compliment

Hope that helps!