Any advice on whether to go with BR80 or BR800 ?

[wyvernwood]

(Sorry meant to post this in the BR forum - not the general one)

Hi,

I'm a noob here, and I'm after some advice on which of these MT devices to go for. Sorry for all the questions that follow, but I keep flip-flopping between the BR80 and BR800.

I've been playing the guitar for 25+ years, never that seriously, more for relaxation and enjoyment and I've become stuck in a rut. I currently use an MAudio Black Box - which allows me to plug in and play with Amp models, effects - but no recording, and limited drumsets/rhythms.

I want to switch over to a recording device, with Amp models/effects and more flexible rhythmn / drum options - but I can't decide between these two units.

My primary objective is to get something that will help me improve my playing, that I can use premade backing tracks with (and develop my own) and has good quality effects/Amp models. I would like to develop the discipline to play to backing tracks, and to learn more about song structure and melody by building up my own tracks from chord sequence to melodies.

My experience with the MAudio Black Box was generally very good, although some Amp models/effects struck me as poor quality, it was fiddly to use - but is a good solid unit.


As for the choice between the BR80 and the BR800, I guess it comes down to the following questions:

Does the BR800 have different Amp models / effects - and are those of better quality than the BR80 - or are they exactly the same ?

How useful is the eband mode of the BR80 ? I would like to play along with pre-recorded MP3 backing tracks - I assume you can do this with both BR80/800 - but the ability to supress the centre and slow a track down to learn and play along with solos appeals to me in theory, I'm just not sure how much use I would get from it in practice. I already have a variety of backing tracks as MP3 and so long as I can use these I think I'll be happy enough.

I've heard comments on poor quality sound on the BR80 for some effects - what's the general feeling from those here that have used it ? I would hate to move on from the Black Box only to find that sound quality is the same.

I would prefer to do a lot of work on the unit itself rather than have it connected to the PC - are both devices equal in this respect ? or does one have more editing function than the other ?

Once you have selected input / Amp / effects and recorded a track - can you retrospectively change the effects applied to that channel/track ? (I assume not)

Can you slow down playback of tracks on the BR800 without effecting pitch ?

Can you chop / change drum rhythmns on both BR80/800 ? ie select various intro/main/fill/outro patterns to build a complete rhythmn track ?



Sorry for all those questions - I'm erring towards the BR800 at the moment, but I'm not sure exactly what I will be sacrificing in going with either of these in place of the other.

Oh - and if it makes any difference - my preference is for bluesy/jazzy sound, classical and occasional forays into heavier rock/metal.

Any help and advice would be really appreciated.

Thanks,
Martin

[banjaxed]

Hi Martin,

 Have a look at the Boss JS8 E-Band, It does all the things you have mentioned.
I've had one for a couple of years and they are a great practice tool.

Regards,

Maurice.

[Geir]

Hi Martin, and welcome.

I have both the 80 and the 800 and have recorded a lot of songs on both in addition to on the original microBR.

It's a tough choice, both are very good devices.

To the questions:

The amp models are different. In general, I would say the br80 has better models, but not by much IMO. Both offer good amp models and effects but they may need some tweaking to get them to your liking. The reverb is however much better on the br800, but reverb is overrated anyway

I don't use the eband mode, even if when I got my first MBR it was for the same reasons you have now! It was just that when I got a MTR I found that songwriting and multitrack recording was so much fun.
You can do speed change/ center cancelation on the 80 but not on the 800.

Both units have the same track editing features (copy move delete .....) so the only big difference is when you come to the mastering. For some reason boss have decided that you can't do any mixing while mastering on the br80. On the br800, you can adjust levels, panning etc. while mastering or bouncing, that can't be done on the br80.

Also, only the 800 let's you add effect while bouncing, which means that you can record the guitar dry (but still listening to it with fx if you want) and then add the guitar effect later (same for vocals or any recorded track for that matter).

As for the drums, both can do what you want, intro/verse/fill/endings, but they do it a bit differently. I think I've written about the differences somewhere here before. I'll see if I can find the link if you're interested. But bottom line, both can do what you want, but the br80 is more flexible and has somewhat better drum sounds.

If I HAD to pick just one, I would pick the br800, but I'm very glad I have both as the portability of the 80 is hard to beat. I ALWAYS have the 80 with me. Always!


Hope this helps a bit, and good luck. I'm sure you'll be happy with either of them.

[wyvernwood]

Thanks - that's another one added to the mix!

One thing though - is the JS8 capable of multi-tracking ? it seems from the blurb and a couple of vids that I have just watched to be limited to one loop then allowing playing over that loop, but appears not to be able to record that as a separate track ?

I probably should have mentioned in my original list that the multi-tracking is also desirable. My OH wants to use this for recording children's stories and allow for mixing in of music and sound effects (I know this could be done in post production on PC, but a 1 stop shop device somehow puts less 'device' in the creative process - and is easier to cart around).

The JS8 does look more geared towards practice and improvement, which is my primary objective. Are the modelling / amps effects etc. on the JS8/10 any better than the BR80/800 ? they seem to be based on the GT100 rather than the GT10 (does that = better ?).

Thanks for the advice.
Martin

[wyvernwood]

Thanks Geir - sorry posted previous reply before seeing yours.

Hmmm - doesn't make the choice any easier

The difference in price here is £100 to go from the BR80 to the BR800 - If they were priced the same, I would probably go straight for the BR800, that £100 difference is enough to confuse me completely.

You mentioned that the effects and COSM modelling on the BR80 is better than the BR800. I've heard a few negative comments on the BR80 on various forums (particularly over quality of distortion and the bass effect), this worries me slightly on the BR800 if that is indeed not up to the same standard as the BR80.

I guess that ultimately it probably doesn't make too much difference - I should just go for one of them and concentrate more on my playing! after all, the biggest limit on the quality of output is highly likely to be me rather than any device I'm using (including the guitar).

Thanks
Martin

[Geir]

If you want to hear some of the effects used in songs listen to a few here. I try to alway write which recorder I use when posting a song as do many others here too. I'm not really a bass player, but I do have a bass and for my use I find the br800 effects more than good enough. I don't have a problem finding distortion effects to my liking either, and I do not miss my Marshall stack!!!

[64Guitars]

To decide between the BR-80 and the BR-800, you really only have to consider two things - price and size. People who love the BR-80 (and the original Micro BR) love its small size. They can put it in their shirt pocket and take it with them wherever they go. If that extreme portability is important to you, or you're just impressed by tiny gadgets, then the BR-80 is the way to go.

Personally, I hate tiny gadgets. The buttons and display are too small. There aren't as many controls, so you have to do more scrolling through menus and screens. And a slight tug on your guitar cable will send the BR-80 crashing to the floor from whatever table or other support you had it sat on. The BR-800 is also quite small and portable, though not small enough to fit in your shirt pocket. But you can easily carry it with you, use it on the bus or train, etc. Yet it's big enough to stay put on the table and has lots of nice, full-size controls, including track faders (which the BR-80 lacks). The following message has a picture that shows the difference in size between the BR-80, BR-800, and BR864.

https://songcrafters.org/community/index.php?topic=18733.msg231486#msg231486

But I'm certainly in the minority here with my views on size. Most of our members have the BR-80 or the original Micro BR, and its size is one of the things they like most about it. If you're in that camp too, then the BR-80 is the way to go. But if you're like me and prefer a slightly larger recorder, then I'd recommend the BR-800.

A few more points worth knowing:

The BR-80 has USB 2.0 for fast file transfers to/from your computer, while the BR-800 (like all previous BRs) has the much slower USB 1.1. This may, at first, seem like a good reason to go for the BR-80. But, in reality, it doesn't make a lot of difference because you can pop the SD card out of the BR-800 and insert it into a USB 2.0 or USB 3.0 card reader connected to your computer for fast file transfers. A side-benefit of using a card reader is that you can leave all of the cables (guitar, mics, power adapter, etc.) connected to your BR since you only need the SD card to transfer your files. With the BR-80, you'd have to disconnect all of the cables if you want to take the BR to your computer to transfer some files (assuming the computer isn't right next to your BR). Of course, you can always pop the SD card out of the BR-80 too.

The BR-800 has a looping mode which lets you record multi-part songs in real time. For example, you can record a few bars of a chord progression and let it loop continuously while you record some bass guitar. Then, while the rhythm and bass are looping, you can record some lead guitar, and so on.

The BR-800 can record up to four tracks simultaneously. This can be useful if you're recording your band, for example. The BR-80 can only record two tracks at a time.

The BR-80's drum machine is slightly easier to program because you only have to specify the length (in measures) of each step. With the BR-800 and earlier BRs, you have to specify the starting measure number of each step. The length of the step is implied by the difference between starting measures. This is a bit unintuitive and can be a pain sometimes but you get used to it. And you can use the BR Rhythm Editor software to create your drum arrangements. In that case, you don't have to worry about starting measures because you specify the length of a step graphically by dragging its edge.

There are many other differences between the BR-80 and the BR-800, but they're really quite minor. So it all comes down to size and price. If you prefer a slightly larger machine and don't mind spending the extra money, get the BR-800. But if you like tiny gadgets or money is tight, get the BR-80. Both machines are excellent and have similar features and capabilities so I wouldn't worry too much about the details.

[64Guitars]

You can do speed change/ center cancelation on the 80 but not on the 800.

According to the BR-800 manual (pages 138 and 139), its Phrase Trainer feature lets you change the speed without affecting pitch (Time Stretch) or minimize sounds in the centre (Centre Cancel).

[Geir]

You can do speed change/ center cancelation on the 80 but not on the 800.

According to the BR-800 manual (pages 138 and 139), its Phrase Trainer feature lets you change the speed without affecting pitch (Time Stretch) or minimize sounds in the centre (Centre Cancel).

oooops

sorry 'bout that. I stand corrected. You can do that on the 800 as well. Well, I think I used it once on the mbr, but haven't used it since, either on the 800 or on the 80.

Well, that's another + for the 800 then.

BTW, both my brother and my best friend bought a 800 after considering my advice. .....

I still love my micro tho  

[Geir]

come to think of it, Roland/BOSS really should give me some commision. I know I've spawned at least three BR sales