Collaboration tips & tricks

[hardlock]

If new to this collaboration, be sure to first see the "read this" sticky at the top of this section.  I was hoping to post this within it but I guess it's locked (admin?).

I really enjoy sharing parts between members and want everyone to get the most from their collaboration efforts.  It seems however that many don't seem to share their parts using the same methods. 

The reason this can be a problem is that the more parts that are added to a mix, the more buried other parts can get and the less control the song writer has over the final product.

For example, someone posts an mp3 rhythm backing track to build from.  You import it into your MBR as a stereo track (say TR 1-2 v1).  You then record a bass part on TR3 v1 and a lead on TR4 v1.  Now you bounce or master all of the above tracks to say TR 3-4 v8 and export to mp3 to post on the board.

Sound familiar?  So far so good right?  Yes IF the original writer is 1) happy with the work,  2) happy with the way the parts are mixed, and 3) happy with any effects you may have added when mastering/bouncing your tracks.

If say the writer really likes your lead part but someone else posts a better bass part, what can he do now?  He either has to ask you to re-record the lead risking loss of the original feeling and inspiration you may have gotten in the 1st take or decide to live with your bass part to save the great lead.

Either way you see the possible problem(s), especially if many are contributing to your song this way.

SOLUTION:

Ideally, everyone who contributes a part or parts to someone elses song should BESIDES posting a bounce or master mix of the original song and their added part(s) to the board for review should at least EXPORT their separate part tracks to MP3 and save or post them if requested by the song writer.

This allows the writer to pick and choose the parts he/she likes best to add to the original backing track and mix as preferred at the volume/pan/effects levels desired by the song writer.

You may be under the false impression that you have to mix and master tracks for the export MP3 prompt to come up.

In fact, any single or stereo track can be exported as an MP3 (or wave) file simply by selecting the UTILITY menu, cursering right until EXP IMP is found and selecting EXP then the track location and file type.  Page 107 in the manual covers this.

Also note that for the most professional results of part sharing, the wave file format should probably be used but due to the large file size required, other file sharing arrangements will be needed between collaborators.

[64Guitars]

Ideally, everyone who contributes a part or parts to someone elses song should BESIDES posting a bounce or master mix of the original song and their added part(s) to the board for review should at least EXPORT their separate part tracks to MP3 and save or post them if requested by the song writer.

I have a couple of concerns about the idea of posting separate tracks in the forum.

First, I think we should ask Pedro if that's alright with him. I don't know how much server space he has available but I'm sure it's not unlimited and he might not want all the extra attachments. On the other hand, maybe he's got lots of available space and doesn't mind. The point is, I think we owe him the courtesy of asking before people start attaching their separate tracks.

Secondly, I think some people might feel a bit uncomfortable about posting their raw, unaccompanied tracks publicly. It's one thing to add your playing or singing to a mix where the imperfections get lost in the background. It's quite another to post a solo track where your mistakes and imperfections stand out (at least to the performer) for all the world to hear. I would imagine this would be especially embarrassing for singers.

A possible solution to both problems would be to store the files offsite and limit their accessibility to just the people involved in the collaboration using a free web storage site such as Microsoft's SkyDrive, which gives you 25GB of file storage and allows you to control access to your files. With that much space available, you could even upload uncompressed WAV files of your tracks to SkyDrive so that you'd get a higher quality mix.

Here's a YouTube video with a short demonstration of SkyDrive:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuT3WdkmlMg

[Wiley]

Thanks 64,  I understand both sides of this situation.  I have just started learning to bounce.  And even at that some tracks are getting buried.  I can see though where everyone adds things get buried. I like your idea of an outside place where you can add and no one else can see.  It is hard to sing a song to yourself and I am sure the same thing goes for any guitar player etc.  How do you play to yourself? And like you said when playing with others it masks your imperfections. Thanks for the great points. I am with you!

[Ferryman_1957]

SkyDrive is great. I just started using this on a collaboration with Indierik and ORH to share files. Also, if you are using SkyDrive you can share WAV files and import tracks directly into the BR. I think this is better than converting to mp3 and back again, because there's no quality loss. The BR Wave Converter software (available in the Downloads section) is great for this. Mind you the size of the WAV files means the upload can take a few minutes.

Cheers,

Nigel

[hardlock]

Good points 64.  I agree that many won't want to publicly post their solo tracks to the threads but this can easily be avoided by just emailing them back and forth between the partners.

Actually, one advantage to posting solo parts (if desired) instead of multiple remixes would be a reduction in posted memory used I would think?

[Oldrottenhead]

you really dont want to hear my singing without music, so i following advice from 64 guitars use skydrive, with jemima's kite we post everything at 192kbps but we intend to post as wav files, but i think you would have to have the ears of a bat to spot the difference. i have been using my public folder to use the mp3player at microrecorders to play 192kbps files (usually to big to post here) that are located on my skydrive. is a bit of a learning curve on how to do that but once done its easy to remember  i think. other folders you can allow access to individuals you want.

thanks again 64guitars.

[64Guitars]

Actually, one advantage to posting solo parts (if desired) instead of multiple remixes would be a reduction in posted memory used I would think?

The key words are "instead of". I suspect that most contributors to a collaboration would also want to post their own mix featuring their contribution to get quick feedback from other members, rather than waiting till the songwriter posts the final mix, which may or may not include their contribution. So, I think any posted solo tracks would likely be in addition to multiple mixes, thereby increasing storage requirements considerably.

Again, if Pedro has lots of available space and doesn't mind the extra attachments, then I have no objection. I just think we owe him the courtesy of asking rather than assuming that it's okay. We all owe Pedro our gratitude for providing this community and allowing us to share our work by attaching MP3s to messages. I wouldn't like to take advantage of his generosity. Attachments are limited to 5MB for a reason. I assume it's because Pedro has a limited amount of storage space available on his server and doesn't want to exhaust it prematurely. We should each do what we can to ensure that we're not using Pedro's server space unnecessarily by posting more attachments than we need to.

[Rata-tat-tat]

Hey guys... I agree with everyone on this subject... I myself am not too concerned with how anyone percieves my crappy singing... for me it's just fun... With that said, I also understand that some may be a little embarassed about their individual tracks... (Trust me I've listened back at some of my tracks and thought .... WOW that was horrible) but when mixed down with the other tracks it sounded fine.
I have not tried SkyDrive (Will check it out today)... I have used Media Fire in the past... It is unlimited storage and it is also free. You can upload any type of file and send the links via e-mail or post on a thread "If the moderator allows links". At any rate... I'm a drummer and most of the postings have already had drum tracks laid on the original posting. So... I too understand where everyone is comming from about being able to mix down only those parts that are wanted. Just my 10 cents....

V/R
Tod

[Pedro]

Well, this would be very useful but at this moment, due to server restrictions, it isn't possible. In fact, in the near future I will have to apply a rule to remove all MP3's and posts older than 30 days to reduce the website space and bandwidth consumption. Microrecorders.org consumes more than 30GB a month and occupies over 4GB. 

[64Guitars]

in the near future I will have to apply a rule to remove all MP3's and posts older than 30 days to reduce the website space and bandwidth consumption. Microrecorders.org consumes more than 30GB a month and occupies over 4GB. 

Hey folks, let's all try to help Pedro conserve space by moving our attachments offsite. You can get plenty of free web storage space from SkyDrive or MediaFire and upload your MP3 files to a public folder there. Then you can edit your messages and change the MP3 Player link to the SkyDrive or MediaFire file's URL. Once you've made that change and tested the MP3 Player, you can edit your message again and remove the old attachment to give Pedro his space back. If we all do this (especially those who have posted many MP3s), then perhaps Pedro won't need to delete the older messages and we can continue to enjoy each other's music

One thing about SkyDrive that might not be obvious is how to get the correct URL of your file. When you hover the mouse over the file, the URL will be displayed on the status line at the bottom of your web browser. If that URL begins "http://cid-xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.skydrive.live.com/", then it will point to a web page where visitors can download the song. This is fine for e-mails but it's not what you want for the MP3 player. Instead, left-click on that link and another page will load with a slightly larger icon for the file. If you hover the mouse over this icon, you should see a URL on the status line of your browser which begins "http://xxxxxx.xxx.livefilestore.com/" (the "x"s represent characters which will be different for each user). This is the URL you need for the MP3 player. Right-click on the icon and select "Copy Link Location" from the Firefox context menu (IE should have a similar option). This puts the URL in the Windows clipboard. Now you can edit your message and paste the URL between the [mp3] [/mp3] tags.

Aside from saving Pedro's server space and bandwidth consumption (which costs him money), there are some other benefits:

• Since SkyDrive and MediaFire give you plenty of free web space, you can have higher quality MP3 files without having to worry about file size. I think a bit rate of 192kbps is a good choice, although you can use higher bit rates if you want to. If you've tried posting files to the forum in the past and had to reduce the bit rate to keep the file size under 5MB, then this is an opportunity to change those files to a higher bit rate version stored offsite so we can hear your music without the limitations of low bit rate MP3 compression.
  
  
• If you create a public folder named "My Music", for example, you can edit your profile at microrecorders.org to include the URL of that folder in the Website field. Then anyone can click on the website icon below your avatar in any of your messages to go to your public "My Music" folder on SkyDrive or MediaFire and download any of your songs.
  
  
• You can create folders on SkyDrive that are only accessible by the people you specify. This would allow you to post individual tracks in WAV format for collaborations, but restrict access to only the people involved in the collaboration. When the collaboration is finished and mixed, you can upload a high-quality MP3 of the mix to the public folder and post a message at microrecorders.org with that file linked to the MP3 player gadget so everyone can hear your finished song.

If you're willing to move your files offsite but have some difficulties getting started, post a message here describing the problem and I'll try to help.