Song parts layout & bouncing on the BR800

[Super 8]

Hi Folks!  I've been 'out of the saddle' for the longest of time now but am tentatively trying to get back on it and back into some sort of music routine.  After tinkering with a Boss Micro for some time a good few years ago now (some folks such as RottenHead & Greeny might remember me from the old forum?) I decided to splash out and invest in a BOSS BR800 to try and motivate myself to get back into the swing of things.  Thing is, I'm REALLY rusty!

I was wondering if anyone could point me to some fast-track tips for using a Boss BR800 to get me up-to-speed?  There's stacks of stuff I need to get my head around but, this time round, I need to forge some good habits from the offset. 

This being the case, first off, can any of you seasoned players out there give me some advice/suggestions (or point me to some) as to what's the best way to layout a song using the tracks available and when/where to bounce in order to free up more tracks?  I also need to know what's the best way to use the channel 5/6 & 7/8 paired tracks. I was a bit disappointed to read that this isn't a true 8 track machine - I could live without paired stereo tracks if it means more available mono tracks.

For a typical song of mine the musical components to cram into the tracks available would be the following:
ACOUSTC GUITAR (perhaps in stereo now?!) / BASS / ELECTRIC GUITAR RHYTHM / ELECTRIC GUITAR LEAD / LEAD VOX / BACKING VOX (X2?) / MAYBE BANJO / MAYBE DOBRO / PERHAPS A BIT OF SYNTH (string patch; lead - whatever's right for the song) / E-DRUM KIT (LINE IN in stereo or broken down into KICK; SNARE; TOMS; CYMBALS but this is VERY track intensive) OR using the BUILT-IN DRUM MACHINE (again, whatever's right for the song really).

Any tips/tricks/advice for an 'old (Micro BR) newbie (BR-800)' here would be much appreciated - I wanna wipe the slate and start afresh with this machine!  I don't want to fall into bad habits from the off like I did last time!  I am very much looking forward to making some muzak again but need a refresher course to re-learn the ropes before I dive in as it were.  CHEERS!     

[7thson]

Grest post.  I too am looking to do the same thing.  I've done some very rudimentary things on my BR-800 but I want to learn to build songs now so I'm looking forward to seeing the responses you get here.

One thing I will say is you should get a 32GB SD card if you want to make sure you have enough storage for the kind of work you want to do.

[Geir]

I'll post a reply soon, but just wanted to comment quickly on the 32gb card suggestion. Yeah, it's nice to have plenty of space, but just remember. Each song is limited to 1gb!! Of course that means you can have 32 songs, as a MINIMUM ! I've been there, and for my disorganized mind, I probably would have been better off with a couple of smaller cards. They also seem to be quicker to access from the PC.

[Super 8]

Just ordered a 32GB card & was feeling pretty pleased with myself until I logged back on and read Geir's reply he! he! Hey 7thson, we can be BR800 'learning buddies'.  That reminds me, I have a song about 7sons (or was it suns? Open to interpretation I suppose!)  Looking forward to learning lots of stuff here - it's good to be back! 

[64Guitars]

I was wondering if anyone could point me to some fast-track tips for using a Boss BR800 to get me up-to-speed?  There's stacks of stuff I need to get my head around but, this time round, I need to forge some good habits from the offset.

I'd recommend the BR-800 DVD Owners Manual from ProAudioDVDs.

http://proaudiodvds.com/store/roland-dvds/roland-boss-br-800-dvd-tutorial/

This being the case, first off, can any of you seasoned players out there give me some advice/suggestions (or point me to some) as to what's the best way to layout a song using the tracks available and when/where to bounce in order to free up more tracks?

The procedure is the same for the BR-800 as for the Micro BR. The only difference is that you have 8 playback tracks instead of just 4, so you don't have to bounce as often.

Basically, the procedure for any BR is to record all of the available tracks for v-track 1 (4 tracks on the Micro BR or 8 on the BR-800), then bounce the mix to a pair of empty tracks. Which pair of empty tracks? Well, it's not critical as long as they're empty, but I recommend starting with Tr56v8 for your first bounce. That way, when you later look at the track grid for your song in BR Wave Converter or BR Explorer, it will be easy to distinguish your original tracks (at the top) from your bounces and masters (at the bottom). After the first bounce, you'd set the current v-tracks to 8 for tracks 5 and 6 so that you can monitor your mix. And you'd set the other 6 tracks to v-track 2 (assuming you've not recorded anything on that v-track yet) so that you can continue recording. After you've finished recording 6 new tracks on v-track 2, you'd bounce those 6 tracks plus the original mix from Tr56v8 to Tr56v7. You would then set the v-tracks to 7 on tracks 5 and 6 (so you can monitor the new mix), and 3 on the other 6 tracks so you can continue recording. And so on.

I also need to know what's the best way to use the channel 5/6 & 7/8 paired tracks. I was a bit disappointed to read that this isn't a true 8 track machine - I could live without paired stereo tracks if it means more available mono tracks.

It's true that the BR-800 is not an 8-track recorder, but not for the reason you're probably thinking. It is, in fact, a 64-track recorder. But, because the internal mixer has only 8 input channels, you can only play 8 of the 64 tracks at a time. Channels 5/6 and 7/8 each control two tracks, so it doesn't change the fact that the BR-800 can play 8 tracks at a time.

Don't think of tracks 5/6 and 7/8 as some sort of cheat; they're really not. There are many stereo input sources and when using these sources, it's more convenient to have a single fader to control the levels of both channels simultaneously. One stereo input source that is often overlooked is the BR's stereo effects. In the original Micro BR, all of the effects were mono except the Tap Delay and Autopan, so you might be used to recording your guitar, for example, to a single track. But with the BR-800, many of the effects are stereo and you need to record them to a pair of tracks to preserve the intended stereo panorama. If you look at the effects algorithms on pages 60 through 65, you'll see that many of them include stereo effects (double lines to the right of the effect). For example, in the E.GUITAR MULTI algorithm, the DELAY and MOD effects are both stereo. That means you should record your guitar to a pair of tracks whenever either or both of these effects are turned on. Other algorithms also have various stereo effects.

The easy way to decide whether to record to a single track or a stereo pair is to select the desired effect, arm a single track, and play a bit. Then arm a pair of tracks and play a bit more. If it sounds the same, then you can record to a single track. But if you're using stereo effects, you'll usually find that it sounds way better when a pair of tracks are armed, so you should record to a pair of tracks. Although you can choose any stereo pair (1/2, 3/4, 5/6, or 7/8), you'll find that 5/6 and 7/8 are ideal for this purpose.

Other stereo sources where 5/6 and 7/8 are convenient are stereo keyboards, electronic drum kits, stereo microphones, stereo WAV files (backing tracks or drum tracks, for example), bounce targets, and mastering targets. In all of these cases, it's more convenient to control the level of the track pair with a single fader than with two separate faders. I'd recommend always using tracks 5/6 for bounces (starting with v-track 8) and tracks 7/8 for mastering (also starting with v-track 8). If you get into that habit, then you'll always know where to look for your bounces and masters when re-visiting old projects. Of course, you can also use tracks 5/6 and 7/8 for recording stereo sources (starting with v-track 1). There's no need to reserve tracks 5/6 and 7/8 for bouncing and mastering only since that cannot be done at the same time as you're recording your tracks, so there's no conflict.

There's no rule that says you have to record your tracks in order from track 1 to track 8, so choose which track(s) to use according to your input source. If it's mono, uses tracks 1 through 4. If it's stereo, use 5/6 or 7/8. Also, you don't have to select the same v-track on all 8 tracks. So, if you've recorded 4 mono tracks on Tr1v1 through Tr4v1 and you don't have anything to record in stereo, then just bounce those 4 tracks to Tr56v8. Now you can set tracks 1 through 4 to v-track 2 so you can record something new, tracks 5/6 to v8 for monitoring the previous mix, and leave tracks 7/8 on v-track 1. There's no need to change 7/8 to v-track 2 just because 1 through 4 are on v-track 2. If you later decide to use a stereo effect or record some other stereo source, you can use Tr78v1 for it.

[64Guitars]

One thing I will say is you should get a 32GB SD card if you want to make sure you have enough storage for the kind of work you want to do.

I agree with Geir that 32GB isn't always the best size to have. There are tradeoffs. For one thing, when you've got that much space available, you tend to keep recording new songs without much thought for the previous songs. In other words, you might not feel the need to backup your finished songs. The trouble is, there's a fairly good chance that any memory card will eventually fail. When that happens and you've got all of your eggs in the one basket, so to speak, you could lose everything! Another concern is that larger cards can be slower for backups, etc.

With smaller cards, they fill up quicker, so you have to back them up and erase them to make room for new songs. This ensures that most of your songs will get backed up from time to time. If you have a memory card disaster, you'll only lose the few songs that are on that particular card.

Of course, the best way to ensure that you don't lose any songs is to back up each song as soon as it's finished. With BR Song Librarian, this is very easy to do. Once a song is backed up, you can erase it from the memory card to leave more room for new songs.

I find that 1GB is more than enough for my needs. I can usually fit 6 to 20 songs on it, depending on their length and complexity. Since 1GB cards are hard to find, I'd recommend getting a few 2GB or 4GB cards. It's always good to have several on hand. That way, if one fills up, you can quickly swap it for another with more available space without having to stop to make a backup (but be sure to make that backup later).

[Super 8]

Mr 64Guitars, erm, WOW!!! That's a truly AWESOME reply (and written in such a logical & eloquent way!)  Thanks SO much for that.  It's exactly what I needed - you have single-handedly answered so many questions I had buzzing around my tiny cranium since getting this thing - questions some of which I couldn't even begin to formulate!  So yes, "CHEERS!"  I owe you a drink (or three!)   

[Oldrottenhead]

i just got a br800  from santy, i have managed to bounce 8 tracks, using the mastering settings, but how do i change to new v tracks to record more and to have the bounced tracks playback.

[Oldrottenhead]

aha found the answer here.https://songcrafters.org/community/index.php?topic=12563.0

[cuthbert]

Wow, new BR-800 from Santy - congrats, James!

I haven't really used mine yet, but I found this online:

To change a V-Track, use the following steps.

Press the TRACK button.
Cursor to "V-TRACK" and then press ENTER.
Use the left and right cursor buttons to select the track that you would like to adjust.
Use the data dial to change its V-Track.
Note: A solid block in the V-Track grid indicates that a V-Track already contains data. A dot indicates an empty V-Track.
Press EXIT twice.

Found that here: http://www.bossus.com/backstage/knowledge_base/view_article.php?article_id=22911773