GETTING THOSE BOUNCE LEVELS RIGHT!

[Super 8]

Really enjoying my new machine and finding it very user-friendly but it's falling down for me somewhat when it comes to BOUNCING.  It's mainly a level thing.  Basically I get my sub-mix across the four tracks then select the track(s) I'm going to bounce to - no probs.  Then I do my bounce but when I go to listen back to it more times than not it's much louder and sounds 'clipped' in parts.  The original tracks aren't distorted just the bounced track(s). 

So my question is:  How do you control levels and prevent bounced sub-mixes from clipping? 

Is it summat to do with lowering the Master Level perhaps? 

With the 'OVER' icon and the Recording Level meters it's quite visible on the screen to see when you're getting a good, clean recording signal when tracking but I can't really SEE when doing a sub-mix bounce if you know what I mean?  More often than not I keep ending up with clipped bounce sub-mixes. 

Any help/advice hear much appreciated!   

[Ferryman_1957]

One obvious thought - do you have any effects applied to any of the tracks? Make sure you don't have effects with the LOC set on any of the tracks you are bouncing. The Bounce function doesn't automatically force on the Mastering effects like the Master function does.

Remember that the level on the bounced tracks is then controlled by the track levels themselves, so make sure they are at 100 or something reasonable when you play back.

I haven't had any problems at all with bouncing myself, no quality degradation or anything like that.

Cheers,

Nigel

[64Guitars]

So my question is:  How do you control levels and prevent bounced sub-mixes from clipping? 

Is it summat to do with lowering the Master Level perhaps? 

A very good question, as the manual fails to mention this very important point in the instructions for bouncing. As you've already guessed, the Master Level controls the overall output of the mixer section before it is sent to the destination tracks, so it is effectively your Recording Level in bounce mode and mastering mode. Adjust it according to the "L/R" columns of the level meter display (the leftmost pair of columns). This is briefly mentioned on page 15, item 8 "L/R (Level Meter)", and on page 17 "Viewing the level meter".

[dragonshade]

A couple things on this....

Remember when you play back that there are ALWAYS 4 channels playing regardless of the fact that you have bounced to 2. When I started I had this same problem and then later realized that I was hearing my bounced 2 + 2 other v-tracks which clipped and sounded as you describe.

You can view the active level meters while recording. You'll have your input 1-4 and to the left the bounced 2.

[Super 8]

Cheers folks!  I'm off to experiment and fine tune.  Much appreciated!!

[guitarron]

bouncing and mastering is an by itself-lots of trial and error

[Bluesberry]

When I bounce I look for the track that I want to be the loudest, and set the level loud enough so it is not clipping but right close to the top, listen all the way to make sure that there is not one section tha takes it over the top.  Now I use this track as refrence and adjust the other three in relation to get the sound levels where I want them, and then bounce.

[Glenn Mitchell]

I understood that getting max levels is not so important with digital, just the balance.
With tape the maxed levels minimized the tape noise and maxed the signal.
I have had good results with under-recorded levels simply cranked up during the mix.
My take is that it's the over driving that is commonly the problem so why push it and risk a bad take?
I am not an engineer, just putting what I heard and my basic experiences out there.

[64Guitars]

Yes, distortion from clipping is much more objectionable than the small amount of noise you'd get by recording too low. So, when setting levels it's always better to err on the low side rather than the high side. However, you should still try to set the levels as high as possible to get the maximum signal-to-noise ratio. But if you're not certain just how high you can go without clipping, it's better to back off the level slightly.

All audio electronics produces some amount of noise. In a digital recorder such as the BR series, the noise floor is much lower than it is with tape, but it still exists. So the same principal applies when setting levels. You should always set the levels as high as possible without clipping. If you record at a very low level, then compensate by boosting it in the mix, you'll be boosting the noise too. More importantly, the level of your audio signal will be closer to the level of the noise when you record at a low level than it would be if you recorded at a higher level. In other words, the level of the noise is basically fixed but the level of the audio signal is decided by you. So you should set the level as high as possible to keep it away from the noise, but not so high that it clips and causes distortion.

The level of noise in the BR series recorders is extremely low and you may not hear it even if you record very low. But that doesn't mean you should ignore your recording levels and just set everything low to avoid clipping. You should always record as high as possible without clipping.

Another reason to always record as high as possible is to preserve the dynamic range of your playing. If you record at a lower level than necessary, your dynamic range will be limited.