Recording backing vocals and mastering question

[Ferryman_1957]

I've been trying to lay down some vocal tracks and have been struggling. Part of that is due to my voice (but you can't help there) but part of it is due to understanding the best way of recording multiple vocal tracks.

So far I've got one lead vocal and two backing vocal tracks. Because I couldn't decide which effect I wanted to use, I recorded all the vocals dry. However, I then found out that you can only apply an effect after recording to one track at a time. There is an option using LOC to apply an effect to 2 tracks, but for many effects that screws up the stereo separation on the backing vocals. I had the backing vocals panned left and right, and when I applied some of the effects it sounds like they're centred in the middle.

So here's my question. I've mixed all the instruments on to 2 tracks and I was planning to mix all the vocals on to 2 other tracks and then master everything with rhythm. However to get the three vocals onto two tracks with adding effects after they have been recorded means I have to do three separate bounce operations (that is if I've got any of this right). Am I right in thinking that recording vocals with effects rather than dry is the only way of mixing multiple different vocals together without going through several intermediate bounce steps?

Also, I'd love to hear from those of you that have recorded backing vocals what your approach is. How many tracks do you generally record? Do you just do two tracks and pan one left and right or do you record 3 or 4 to really build up a strong backing sound?

Cheers,

Nigel

[Oldrottenhead]

you could always export the vox track to your pc using the microbr wav convertor and importing them into a daw prog like cubase or sonar and adding effects there. you can get audigy for free,  64 guitars is the man to explain that one. i only use that for one track at a time, but i think you can use it in multitrack mode.

[Ferryman_1957]

Could do, but I was trying to do everything in the BR. Call me a masochist.....The reason I like this machine so much is that it's so small and compact. I might as well do all the mixing in DAW (which I don't like, can't get on with that stuff). Perhaps that is a limtation - for lots of vox, best to work outside the BR?

Cheers,

Nigel

[Oldrottenhead]

for what its worth i do all my vox on the mbr and always  use effects,i never sing dry with no effects (nobody could bare to hear that).

[Ferryman_1957]

So what's your fave vocal effect? I know you said you used "Far Distance" a bit. What's most of the jemima's kite stuff done with? I really like the way the vocal on it's jemima's kit "fits" with the mix - do you recall what you used on that? My vox sounded like it stuck well out from the mix (but some of that is bad singing).

Cheers,

Nigel

[Oldrottenhead]

I know you said you used "Far Distance"

not me, not an effect ive ever used. i always use fornylon, but ive edited some various fornylon settings, dont ask me how, hoop and 64 guitars are the ones to ask. i occassionaly use stclean guitar effect and record to two tracks to get a stereo effect, but generally its straight on to fornylon, for me. but mess about with different effects  and see what happens.

[Ferryman_1957]

Must be getting old - mixed you up with something else. Thanks, I'll play around with ForNylon. Strange name, but there you go.

Cheers,

Nigel

[Oldrottenhead]

i think its for recording nylon strung acoustic guitars, but has a nice delay echo reverb thing going on

[64Guitars]

So here's my question. I've mixed all the instruments on to 2 tracks and I was planning to mix all the vocals on to 2 other tracks and then master everything with rhythm. However to get the three vocals onto two tracks with adding effects after they have been recorded means I have to do three separate bounce operations (that is if I've got any of this right). Am I right in thinking that recording vocals with effects rather than dry is the only way of mixing multiple different vocals together without going through several intermediate bounce steps?

If you want to apply a different insert effect to each vocal track, or you want to pan each vocal track to a different location, then you have to bounce each track separately. But if you want to apply the same effect to all three vocal tracks, you can set the insert point (LOC) to MASTER and bounce all of the tracks at once through the selected effect to a single track (mono). Don't forget to turn off the rhythm and set the track level of any unwanted tracks to minimum before bouncing.

For example, if your lead vocal is on track 1 and your backing vocals are on tracks 2 and 3, and you want to apply the ForNylon patch to all three tracks, do the following:

• Set the insert point to MASTER (see pages 64/65).
• Select the MIC effects bank, then select patch P05:ForNylon.
• Switch to Bounce Mode by holding down [EXIT] and pressing [UTILITY].
• Switch off the rhythm and set the level of track 4 to minimum.
• Adjust levels of tracks 1, 2, and 3 as desired.
• Adjust Master level for optimum recording level according to meters.
• Reset counter to 00:00:00-00.0, then press Record button to enter record standby mode.
• Press Play button to begin recording.
• Set insert point back to INPUT(NORMAL).

Unfortunately, this method will result in a mono vocal mix. You can pan the entire mix anywhere you like, but you can't pan the individual vocal parts separately because the effects in the COSM GTR AMP and VOCAL MULTI algorithms are mono. The MSTR TOOL KIT algorithm is stereo, but it probably doesn't have the effects that you'd want to apply to your vocals. For example, the ForNylon patch uses the 4-band equalizer and the delay effects. The MSTR TOOL KIT algorithm has a 3-band equalizer but no delay effect.

[Ferryman_1957]

Thanks, this is all great advice. I now know how to take multiple backing vox tracks and bounce them to a single mono track. That's a good way of building up 2 or 3 backing vox into one, then do the same again for a stereo backing vox mix.

I found the ForNylon patch worked well - my vocals came out much better. I tweaked it a bit by putting the enhancer on, that helped me. I also recorded two lead vox in separate takes, two separate backing vox and then bounced everything on to a stereo pair. When I did that I used a Master effect on the two lead vox tracks which allowed me to tweak the EQ to beef them up a bit so they stood out from the backing vox.

I'm really pleased with the result (singing could be better, but what the heck). Now I have to do the final mix. Thanks again - I got good results out of using the onboard facilities due to ORH's and 64Guitars' advice.

Cheers,

Nigel