So, my brother is evil ...

[bruno]

... chatting about music yesterday, talking recording. Ah - he says, to record an acoustic guitar, you need a ribbon mike and a great preamp. Trying to get me to spend money again! Although he did spend £4K on a compressor! Any thoughts on mike preamps - I admit to listening to samples on line today, and not being able to hear any difference?
B.

[cuthbert]

I think strategic mic placement and maybe some corrective EQ (usually subtractive, if required), can provide excellent results, and the money spent can be very low. But I also think the same old microphone-type qualities still apply: condensers will have brighter characteristics, and dynamics will range anywhere from warm to muddy.

But at the end of the day, I still think performance and content trumps all. 

[AndyR]

I've been umming and aahing about mic preamps for ages.

I know someone on another forum who dipped his toe in the water and got a cheap one, and swore it made a drastic improvement for him...

Most of the time I'm happy with the noises I get plugging a Rodes condensor or an SM57 straight into my BR1600 (or via a desk into my MBR).

The biggest problem I've got with mics at the moment is my broom-cupboard sounds horrid compared to the room I used to use in the old place. I've noticed some other places in the new house have much nicer ambient sounds... but those are off-limits to wandering guitarist/vocalists if they want to stay popular

[64Guitars]

Perhaps it would help to think about what a mic preamp actually is and the problem it's designed to correct. The problem is that the direct signal from a microphone is too low in level for a good recording so it needs to be electronically amplified. All recording devices that have built-in mics and/or microphone inputs already have some sort of mic preamp built-in. Since your recorder already has a mic preamp, why buy an external one? Well, a couple of reasons come to mind. Some recorders don't have phantom power. If you're using a condenser mic that requires phantom power, an external mic preamp can be a good way of supplying that power. Ideally, any amplifier should exactly reproduce its input signal with a higher level at the output. But no amplifier is perfect so there will always be subtle side effects. Some people believe that vacuum tubes ("valves" to you people in the U.K.) give a warmer sound so they swear by their tube mic preamps. Some mic preamps include extra features such as effects, meters, filters, XLR inputs, etc. Also, external mic preamps are going to use better components and generally have a better design than the mic preamps built-in to your recorder where production costs and size are a bigger concern.

So, yes, external mic preamps are generally better than the ones built-in to your recorder. The question is how much better are they, and does the difference justify the price. Even the cheapest amplifier designs available today do a very good job. So, even though the difference from using an external mic preamp might be noticeable, I doubt that it will make a huge difference. I think that people who switch from using their recorder's internal mic preamps to an external mic preamp and notice a huge difference probably weren't using their recorders properly with the internal mic preamps. The difference should be pretty subtle. Noticeable, but subtle -- not huge.

My advice would be to buy an external mic preamp if you need phantom power or you're interested in the effects, filters, meters, etc. But if your main reason for considering a mic preamp is to make a huge improvement in the quality of your recordings, you'll probably be disappointed. You'll notice a difference but I doubt that it will be huge.

On the other hand, some mic preamps are fairly inexpensive so it might be worthwhile to give one a try. The ART Tube MP is currently $39 US at Sweetwater.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TubeMP/

That's only £24.53 at today's exchange rate. Unfortunately, it seems to be going for a lot more in the U.K.

http://www.gak.co.uk/en/art-tube-mp/780

http://www.soundsliveshop.com/p/ART_Tube_MP_The_Original_Mic_Pre-Amp/ART-TUBEMP

But you can get a Behringer tube preamp for a bit less.

http://www.dv247.com/studio-equipment/behringer-mic100-tube-ultragain-vacuum-tube-preamplifier-with-limiter--9212

http://www.soundsliveshop.com/p/Behringer_MIC100_Tube_Ultragain_Mic_Preamplifier/BEH-MIC100

Better still for anyone in the US, Musician's Friend is offering the ART Tube MP Studio for only $29.99 (£18.86)!

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/art-tube-mp-studio-mic-preamp

At that price, I think it would be a worthwhile purchase for anyone, if only for the VU meter, clipping indicator, built-in limiter, and phantom power.

[Pine]

Well said 64. I think you've summed it up quite nicely. All i would add is that it also depends on what you are micing. I own an ART "TubePac"...same as you pictured exept it also has a compressor. I almost never use the compressor side...and don't use the unit usually at all for anything going direct to my BR1200 (electric guitars, keyboards, drum machines, etc). Their signal somehow seems plenty big enough. However when it comes to live micing...acoustic guitars, vocals, and especially low volume instruments like my mountain dulcimer, strumsticks, thumb pianos, etc.The boost in signal is truly significant....to the tune of about a 30% bigger signal. It also seems that the internal pre's on my Boss are better than the ones on my old Fostex VF80, which is why i bought the ART unit but now don't use it as often. There really is, IMHO, a noticable warmth from the outboard tube preamps, but for me most noticeable on vox and acoustic instruments. My two cents.

Pine

[bruno]

Thanks guys for all the great comments. I do struggle sometimes getting enough volume when miking at distance on the BR when miking the acoustic - which was the problem I'm trying to solve. Take the point that the change won't be massive though.

64 - those prices are amazing!

I am tempted.

:-)

[launched]

Perhaps it would help to think about what a mic preamp actually is and the problem it's designed to correct. The problem is that the direct signal from a microphone is too low in level for a good recording so it needs to be electronically amplified. All recording devices that have built-in mics and/or microphone inputs already have some sort of mic preamp built-in. Since your recorder already has a mic preamp, why buy an external one?

...My advice would be to buy an external mic preamp if you need phantom power or you're interested in the effects...

I'm definitely not an expert, but I read quite a bit, and that's what I get from it. The only time I've ever seen a clearcut possible need for a straight preamp is to boost an SM57/8 in the studio, because those are designed to be low output for stage use.

Condenser mics are difficult to use with a preamp because they have so much gain - Maybe in an acoustic situation by yourself would work, but anyone else in the room will be heard breathing too.

http://www.soundsliveshop.com/p/Behringer_MIC100_Tube_Ultragain_Mic_Preamplifier/BEH-MIC100

I have one of these, and it is a little noisy with XLR jacks and unusable with the 1/4" jacks. Maybe the other ones are good, but I would recommend that you do not consider the MIC100 for purchase.. It's kind of a bummer because their mics are great - I can't tell the difference between their 8500 and the SM58.