Posting habbits on Songcrafters

[Geir]

I don't wanna start a big discussion with this, I just want to give my thoughts on how we can keep this place the best and most friendly place I've been to in the cyber world.

When I found this place a couple of years ago, it changed my musical life in a big way. From having a couple of decades where I barely wrote a song and just occasionally played music together with others I now had a place that welcomed my attempts of songwriting with open arms and kind feedback. That resulted in the most creative period in my musical life ever. Last year I wrote 21 original songs that I posted here together with numerous collabs and coversongs. You guys have made a difference!!! I dont have any exact numbers but I think I've got somewhere between 15 and 20 comments on average on the songs I've posted. I'd like to think that the reason for that is that at least some of the songs are quite good, but I know there's another major factor as well. I've made friends here! And I've also listened and commented on as much as I could. In fact up until last year, I listened to and commented on almost everything.

I've not been able to do that this year, but I try to listen to as much as I can and comment as much as time permits.

I looked at the statistics page (and even made a graph yeah I know, nerd alert !!! ) and one thing worries me. I seems that the ratio of comments to new posts has decreased. And many of us (my self included) has commented more on our own posts lately (this is not statisics, just a feeling).

In order to make this place stay the most supportive and friendly place on the web, I think it's important for all of us to make an effort. Do this exercise :
Take a look at your last 50-100 post. (go to your profile and click on "Show all posts").
How many  of those comments are on other people's songs? and how many of those are new songs you have posted?
Divide the two numbers. 

That's the number of comments a song would get if everyone commented the way you do.

Now let us all make an effort to make that number as big as possible!




_{These are all just some observations and thoughts from my little corner of the world. I don't mean to upset anyone. If I have, I do apologize! I just want this place to stay the best place ever!}

[Hook]

I wake up to find you sitting inside my brain .

I don't wanna start a big discussion with this,

I on the other hand love big, uncomfortable discussions like this and have been noticing some interesting posting changes. I've  been a member since 2009,been posting regularly for a little over a year now & communicating BR advice tips with many of you for years through the yahoo group. I've never been a chat group guy or really used the computer for much more than email and documents and after posting my first few tunes in 2009 I quickly realized this site wouldn't help my career. I had a myspace and could post covers/originals, set lists for bar owners, contact info, etc.(it's still there I think www.myspace.com/hooksongs   toot toot!) the SC site back then was a bit confusing in my opinion also and that turned me off.
fast forward to a year ago, I was getting out of bar performing and getting around to recording old originals, and probably had a question, I'm rather selfish and checked out SC and found they had given the site a facelift and something compelled me to join in the community. I'm not naive, I'm making music in my car, I'm a half assed talent at best, but I've been writing for over 20 years and I've been more productive this last year than most. I like the fact that my music is cataloged here and easily obtained by anyone, but other than that I wouldn't waste my time here if I were trying to build a fan base for a career. I enjoy listening to and commenting on other members posts. Don't get me wrong, i love receiving comments and I do receive great comments here...thanks...but I try not to waste my postings on my own songs. When I first really started listening here  there were alot of members but only a few active ones, and songs from every stage of skill level. Most of you are still active and we have alot of new members which is great. What I dig about this place is it's always been more about the recording or writing  process 1st, then the song that came from it. It's always been a positive, pat yourself on the back environment that encourages and inspires creativity.
If you really want and/or perhaps expect comments on your tunes you should try commenting on other people's tune. Find something they did and say something nice about it, a simple "braw" or "Rock On" (trademark pending ) can make someone (me/you) feel pretty good and they probably will check out your tune and each of you might learn something from listening. In order to make music you need to listen...and hey I listen to my songs alot! In the car, on bike rides, mowing the lawn, but when I come here I share my tunes and I listen to yours. I've found it's been quite inspiring and pushed me not only to produce more but to approach it in new and creative ways.
 If you need a guide, I try to at least comment on 2 songs for every one tune I post, but there's so much interesting, creative, intelligent music being shared here it's hard to find a tune I don't want to comment on!
Sorry for the novella,
 Rock On!

[bruno]

Interesting discussion. Sometimes in a thread, you need to respond, perhaps to a question, or respond to a comment, or simply to say thanks. I appreciate the fact that people listen to my music, and provide feedback. I have a romantic idea. My view and my experience is that once something is online, its nigh on impossible to delete it - ergo data will live forever. As disk space becomes larger and physically smaller, there will be a time when everyone can carry around the entirety of the internet on their iPod equivalent. I have a view that in perhaps 200 or 300 years time, a teenager will be surfing the archives and stumble on SC and listen to our music. Is that not an amazing thought?

Another question to make is why do we do this? I think we are all compelled to do this. From as long as I can remember, I always wanted to make music. It sparked my interest in computers and electronics - as I wanted to build synths - coz I couldn't afford to buy one, and effects pedals etc. So music sparked my interest in technology, from which I now make my living!

So - to this site. I think that my comments should not be counted or bump my posts. Plus I try to listen and comment at least 3 items a day. I think to need to both give and receive to be a part of a community, that said there are only so many hours in a day, so if I miss a great post or song, I apologize but there is a balance to be had between work, family and our passions. The general rule though, if you want to be part of a community, you must give to receive, so listen and comment.

NB I was cleaning the kitchen today - and listening to the random 12 dukebox. The music on this site is of quality, diverse and interesting. I have been quite detached from music for many years, commercial music simply doesn't captivate me (or very little of it) - however the music on this site has fired me up once more - so listening is good for you, so listen ... and if you like it, comment :-)

B.
 

[bruno]

Oh - btw - I've been on a Frank Turner discovery journey of late. I love this guy!

If ever there was song written for Songcrafters - this is it!

Try this at Home - Frank Turner.

Let's inherit the earth because no one else is taking it

Come on, do your worst before the moment's passed

In bedrooms across England and all the Western world

There's posters and there's magazines but the music isn't ours



'Cause we write love songs in C, we do politics in G

We sing songs about our friends in E minor

So tear down the stars now and take up your guitars

And come on, folks and try this at home



Let's stop waiting around for someone to patronize us

Let's hammer out a sound that speaks of where we've been

Forget about the haircuts, the stupid skinny jeans

The stampedes and the irony, the media fed scenes



'Cause we write love songs in C, we do politics in G

We sing songs about our friends in E minor

So tear down the stars now and take up your guitars

And come on, folks and try this at home



Because the only thing that punk rock should ever really mean

Is not sitting 'round and waiting for the lights to go green

And not thinking that you're better 'cause you're stood up on a stage

If you're oh so fucking different then who cares what you have to say?



Because there's no such thing as rock stars

There's just people who play music

And some of them are just like us

And some of them are dicks



So quick, turn off your stereo

Pick up that pen and paper

Yeah, you could do much better

Than some skinny half-arsed English country singer



'Cause we write love songs in C, we do politics in G

We sing songs about our friends in E minor

So tear down the stars now and take up your guitars

And come on, folks and try this at home


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66knvY3vxsA

[Gnasty]

I am very much in agreeance with this subject and Geir you don`t look like a nerd  

My life has changed in the last month and i`m full throttle on other things in my life right now but i did notice this a while back.

I wouldn`t want to single out members but most people use this place in the ways they should and others should understand the main concept of this site by seeing what others are doing on their own song posts. I hate to use the word selfish but if you comment on your song you`re bumping yourself to the top and lowering the newer songs down. I`m with Bruno about answering questions but really it makes me feel better when someone finds my song and bumps it without me having to tell them about it. If you comment on your songs constantly, i know that people notice this and won`t comment on you for that reason. Again i am just giving my honest opinion.

You have to open yourself up and listen for things in other member`s songs that make you want to comment.

Here`s an example, I`m not a huge country music fan at all. I went to a concert once and the lap steel guitar and fiddlers and singing were out of this world good. So even though i didn`t like the music i appreciated the components within. That`s what i feel people should do on other`s songs on this site. If i was still as close-minded as i was about music when i was younger i would never be writing the music i do today. And also because of this site and the members i wouldn`t be and neither would anyone else. So the only way to give that appreciation back is to comment, comment ,comment!  

That is all!

Have a nice day!

[Vaisvil]

reddit has a system that seems to be fairer - and comments don't bump things inordinately and songs don't stay on top forever. I have no idea how it works, but if something like that could be done here I think a lot of members might be happier.

Yes, Reddit is open source

https://github.com/reddit/

but it is way way beyond my skill.

[Burtog]

I agree with Gnasty, I have been guilty of putting comments on my song posts before but now try to only do it to answer a specific question but sometimes I wont even answer a question as you get the 'shameless bump' guilt. We can PM each other anytime and sometimes it nice to do that.

I also think the best way of being fair is to comment on a variety of tunes. I seem to have not spent much time on here in the past 2 weeks, my listening habits are in bursts unfortunately, so I find I may listen to 10 songs back to back some nights and then nothing for a few days.

I noticed less general discussion topics coming up recently or is that just me??

Please dont consider any of my opinions to be complaints, cos they are not!!

  Keep postin'

[kenny mac]

Yeh ,I think this is all fair comment,I Think a problem on the site really is bumps in general,maybe once a songs been commented on it should be left in the year it was done unless its a brand new person that's commenting on it that just heard it for the 1st time.Ive also seen more emphasis on covers of late rather than original stuff. I personally love collaberating on this site when I get the time.sometimes it can get a bit frustrating when you have a song with about 28 downloads and 2 comments(this is only an example) but all in all a great site run very well by mr 64 etc but there does need to be an awareness of what the site is really about and I for one will be making sure my approach to it is to continue to support and collaborate with the the songwriters on it .

[Tangled Wires]

Have to agree with the points raised here, in particular Eric's views on this subject.
With the volume of posts on this site now it is impossible to keep up with everything posted and having songs continually bumped to the top of the list by members commenting on their own songs can be kind of irritating to be honest
I am all for responding to questions asked and the occasional thank you, but really do not think it is  necessary to respond to each individual post which has happened a lot more frequently over the past year or so. If I see a song that say has 30 comments and find out that half of them are by the person posting the song then, to be honest, it puts me off commenting as it kind of seems a bit "try hard" to me. I am sure everyone who posts a song on here reads every single comment posted, and just because they don't personally thank you for that comment would not cause offence to me or would I deem it rude.
I am sure we have all have all been guilty of the odd strategic "thank you" when our songs  are getting ready to plummet off Page 1, but the majority let the comments build up before doing so
If you post a good song here it will get lots of comments, and have found that what I would perceive to be the "stronger" songs I have posted on here over the years have had the most comments compared to the ones that I don't feel are that strong, and if a song isn't getting many comments then I never feel the need to bump it up as would feel like I was flogging a dead horse. I tend to find of this site, as with life in general, that the cream normally rises to the top.
Great songs will always be bumped every now and again, which ain't a problem as it gives the newer members a chance to hear these gems, and there a plenty of unbelievably good tunes on here that deserve this from time to time

[phantasm777]

sorry this is so long -

personally i think if you remove post counts it would help a lot. why do we need to see how many times people posted? many posts have nothing to do with direct critiqueing of music - example -  the general category,etc.
i do agree about bumping, many times i see a bunch of new music then see old 2009 2010 songs bumped up, sometimes in a row, and i am like, i would rather check out the newer stuff, and this is pushing the newest songs closer to obscurity. not to even go into, i have seen some comments on here that seem to be a waste of a post. but to go into details would single people out, and i personally do not dislike  anyone here, and singling out anyone would appear like i did.

i also put in my introduction page that there are genres and styles of music i do not like, and if it were the radio, i would change the channel. it is nothing personal here is an example:

when i post a sabbath cover i expect FEW comments and am cool with it. i know a lot of people do not like metal, and also i know not a lot like my style. i am cool with that especially cause i know there are styles and genre's i do not like, so i pride on being fair. so if a sabbath song i post gets few to no comments, i understand, and it is only made for the target audience who likes metal. i think this applies to all genre's styles.

i refrain from mentioning styles or genre's i dislike as to not offend anyone ( just like wouldn't comment on such styles as i am not a fan and just cannot get into it, even if i appreciate the craftmanship) but i am going to mention one style. country, i've disliked it all my life. and still do, there is not one country song that floats my boat, just like some dont like metal, or prog or whatever. why should i be ashamed of that? hell i used to be a lot worse, when i was young it was all hard rock or nothing. now i like a whole lot more styles, genre's, but it is still very limited as compared to those who like many to most genre's. i cannot get into what i cannot get into. i gotta be true to myself and not look to pleasing others instead.

i do not listen to radio, barely watch tv. i do not listen to MY songs! once i've made them, after times i will forget what i did to make them, somewhat, i listened to them enough whilst making them, take after take, doing all the instruments, once it is birthed, it's out on it's own, i for one do not listen except when i upload it and make sure it is playing correctly on this site. i personally, look forward to moving on to the next song of mine, cover or orig.

i have listened to many song postings where i listened but not commented and as i stated in my introduction topic, there are all talented people here, most more talented than i, stated fact! BUT if thier song happens to be a genre i don't like i cannot comment. i could go "great production" or something but that rings hollow, after a while people will know you don't like it and are posting just to post!

i am not interested in how many posts i have, as far as trying to have a lot of them. that's why i think if there were no post count it would be much more interesting. cause in a minimal way ( i know this is NOT what was intended by 64 and the rest) it looks like whoever posts the most is like an award or something, you even get a title (yes i know most forums have this star system, i've made such forums myself in the past) i like to think most also do not care how many posts they have as if it were some race to have the most! i sure hope not, to me that has nothing to do with the reason for this site.

i personally do not believe in commenting back after every comment i get, i like to wait a few days and reply to 2 0r 5 comments already made and do it as 1 comment reply. unfortuntely this is also bumping but at least i do not intentionally bump for the sake of bumping! some bump and say so, perhaps that's what should stop if that's the complaint, from what i am reading on this topic!?! personally as i said i do not like to thank people directly after each reply but lump a few replies together before i thank them, and thank a few people at once rather than one at a time per post.

is it coming to the point where people do not want a - thank you - back from thier comment? i don't think so, i think it is polite to thank them for thier time, and i post those words before i get a comment.

personally i think not only do people enjoy the comments, but people also enjoy thier comments acknowlegded and thanked! when i post a song i know who are not going to comment, generally, because of the style of the song i posted, for example sabbath. and i am fine with that, and would hope they would respect the fact that i don't like country!

as i said shorty after i joined, that everyone here has a lot of talent, and i personally am not going to comment on a song i cannot get into, i mean no offense and i expect the same thing aimed at me, but i am being brutally honest and not doing any revenge thing as i hope would not be done to me. i hate mentioning a genre or style i don't like cause it indirectly singles out people who do that style here, and i don't want that. on songs i that don't grab me, all i can do is say, nice production, nice writing, etc. but that's gonna ring hollow after a while plus, leaving short comments like that seem to only be running up the post count, and i am not into that either.

when you get to my age you get set into what you like unless something new appeals to you which rarely happens to me these days. i took apart my stereo and do not listen to it, to make room for my music equipment, mixer etc for recording. for me the time is to make music, finally and not just always listen. i've been listening all my life even when i wasn't actually practicing being a musician. however when i hear a good cover or orig i am more than happy to say so! most times it will be short cause i am not going to take apart what the song should have had, or been done to it. that's my opinion that i keep to myself, i am not going to rain on someones trip. there is no point unless they truely are looking for advice.

some of my songs are shittier than others, i know this and i have to learn from this. and i admit when i think i, or we, as per collabs, do a great job on a song and there is a few to no replies i am surprised only cause i think it was a good job. but it really doesn't matter! if the listener doesnt like the song, the style, the whatever, that's his taste, that's how he rolls, i am ok with that, cause that's how i approach it.

if i dont like a country song, i know whoever is doing a country song is probably not going to like metal. though there are those who like about every genre and style, i am not one of those people. i can appreciate every genre and style except rap - hip hip. and even the style i dont like i can respect and speak of the talent it took, but it is not my cup of tea. and i am not going to be a brown nose to comment on everything, raise my post count and win friends merely by brown nosing (nor am i implying anyone else is, i am speaking about myself).

one example, i'd like to make is, neil made a song called when 2 hearts. typically a song i would not like much, but i listened (and that's the point, listening, whether you comment or not, to me!) and i felt compelled to write lyrics and lyric melody line, it just came to me impetuously, so i had to do it. normally, i might not have commented after listening, if it is a song that's not my cup of tea, but i did and it inspired me.

my point being - as long as people are listening! whether they reply or not!

i admit when i first started here i needed comments, but mostly so i could get better, not for praise. for me, after a little bit of praise continues i get embarrassed and would prefer changing the subject, not out of disrespect of the commentor, but to keep my head at the even keel i prefer to be.
i hate egos, and anyone who's been in bands knows what egos can do. actually the contructive criticism does me a lot better than praise. cause it is a lesson in music making even if only another musician's opinion. i respect that much more than praise. and i can only grow with contructive criticism, not with praise, though it is nice to get.

lastly, not all comments on a song are about the song, 4 comments on my "tomorrow never knows" song are about festival submission, and replies from 64 about it. though it had nothing to to with the song per se. but it made me add 2 more comments i would not have made in my song post!
one must consider there are a lot of of reasons for an original poster to reply thereafter. if everyone can live with each other NOT doing - thank you's, and not be offended by not being thanked, perhaps that's the way to go. but making a big deal about posts or lack thereof and how many each has, seems to much like some status thing which i dislike.

again, if someone listens but does not comment, what's wrong with that? that was the point to listen right? and commenting on a song that just doesn't suit your taste, can get old and the one who made the song and those commenting soon can tell it is just brown nosing when you give technical replies and but do not address the song itself.

i'd rather listen and not reply than listen and give some negative reply or some bullshit reply. just cause i don't like it doesn't mean it isn't good and i will not rain on anyone's parade! just my observations, and some reiterations from my introduction topic.

also i am just adressing some comments made, and not trying to include anyone in it as favoring this or that about comments, reply's, thank you's etc. i took comments i saw and addressed them regardless of where anyone else stands on these things. just my opinion, which i do not expect most to agree with, nor am i looking for trouble. just giving an honest opinion, with some suppositions tossed in that are directed at no one but addressed in general!