br800 and roland vs840

[kenny mac]

Hi all,
I was speaking to old rotten head (aka jim)and he suggested I put this out for discussion.
I recently purchased a new br800 and to be frank Im struggling with it.
The vs gives me the sound I put into it i.e drums etc sound the way I put them in, but on the br I need to tweek the controls on the eq to get it similar.
I think a big problem is the headphone moniter is not that loud even when I go into settings and turn it up.
When I put in anything from my vs studio or another audio source it tends to sound week.
Im wondering if its because the vs is a zip disc format and the br being an sd format that it may be compressing any sound that goes into it and its just that im used to hearing a clearer signal.
At the moment Im recording on the vs and using the br for effects etc.
Im thinking the br may be more suited to quieter songs like acoustic stuff etc as Ive heard good results on here.
Any thoughts?

[Geir]

The BR800 does not compress the signal in any way (that is if you import it). If you recording with the BR800 most of the presets for microphone have compression but that can be turned off.

The headphone output is indeed a bit weak. I often use a headphone amplifier, tho it isn't really necessary once you've gotten used to the levels of the 800. It just makes it easier ...

Im thinking the br may be more suited to quieter songs like acoustic stuff etc as Ive heard good results on here.
Any thoughts?

This one's recorded on the BR800, and it's really not that quiet :
https://songcrafters.org/community/index.php?topic=12177.0

[64Guitars]

The vs gives me the sound I put into it i.e drums etc sound the way I put them in, but on the br I need to tweek the controls on the eq to get it similar.

Off hand, I can't think of any reason for that. Maybe you could give us more details about how you're recording the drums. Are they electronic drums recorded via Line In, or acoustic drums recorded with mics? If the latter, which mics are you using and how are they connected to the BR-800?

I think a big problem is the headphone moniter is not that loud even when I go into settings and turn it up.
When I put in anything from my vs studio or another audio source it tends to sound week.

The headphone amp in my BR-864 isn't very powerful either. You could buy a separate headphone amp or mixer for your BR-800 to get more volume, but since you're happy with the headphone amp in the VS-840, why don't you connect the Line Out from the BR-800 to the Line In of the VS-840 and use the VS-840's headphone jack for monitoring the sound from the BR-800?

Im wondering if its because the vs is a zip disc format and the br being an sd format that it may be compressing any sound that goes into it and its just that im used to hearing a clearer signal.

Definitely not. Remember, both the VS-840 and the BR-800 store sound digitally as a stream of ones and zeroes. So the storage medium (zip disk, memory card, hard drive, floppy disk, etc.) makes no difference to the sound. The ones will still be ones and the zeroes will still be zeroes. That's the beauty of digital audio. It can't degrade from copying it, as analog audio does.

Im thinking the br may be more suited to quieter songs like acoustic stuff etc as Ive heard good results on here.

Nah! The BR-800 is great for any kind of music. Just listen to Geir's songs. He's recorded a wide variety of music on his BR-800, from acoustic to almost metal, and it all sounds fabulous. Like any modern technology, you just have to learn how to operate it properly. Give it some time. I'm guessing you weren't an expert on your VS-840 when you first got it. When you get to know the BR-800 as well as you know your VS-840, I'm sure you'll be happy with it. In the meantime, if you can give us more information about what you're doing, we may be able to suggest why you're not getting the sound quality you expect from your BR-800.

[kenny mac]

Yeh regarding all the points I was thinking about using the vs linked up to moniter it so we are both there with that and to be honest that could be the biggest part of the problem, as an Eg If I make a drum ,keyboard and bass track on garage band and put it in the vs it's fine but when I put it into the br800 via the audio input it has basically if you'll pardon the expression no balls.im sure your right about it being a new piece of kit and it is easy to get around as a lot of the controlled are similar to the vs ie ez rec etc.I will persevere so watch this space.Thanks for your input as usual you are spot on.

[Geir]

Yeh regarding all the points I was thinking about using the vs linked up to moniter it so we are both there with that and to be honest that could be the biggest part of the problem, as an Eg If I make a drum ,keyboard and bass track on garage band and put it in the vs it's fine but when I put it into the br800 via the audio input it has basically if you'll pardon the expression no balls.im sure your right about it being a new piece of kit and it is easy to get around as a lot of the controlled are similar to the vs ie ez rec etc.I will persevere so watch this space.Thanks for your input as usual you are spot on.

You might want to check what FX you are using. Are you using the LINE input or using two of the inputs (1-4). Either way, try turning OFF the FX or using another one. Better still. If you can export it to a WAV-file from garage-band, you could put the drumtrack on the BR800 with the BR wave converter, and then you should have the exact same sound as in garage-band (at least if using the same monitors/headset)

[kenny mac]

Yeh ,I'll look into that,to be honest I think if I sort out the moniters situation it will make a big difference,I think I'm just used to the vs moniter level being so strong but I will look into the input selection tonight (probably into the early hours)right now this strange big glowing thing has appeared over Scotland I think it's called THE SUN lol so I'm out chillin in the garden ,thanks for your help,I will experiment with that.

[Oldrottenhead]

you can get the wav edtor software here at 64guitars page https://songcrafters.org/64guitars/BR/Software.html

[64Guitars]

I think the fact that you're re-recording the analog audio from your computer's sound card is the root of your problem, though there may be other factors compounding it. You should keep your recordings digital as long as possible. To do that, you need to export your tracks from GarageBand as AIFF files, then import those into the BR-800 using the BR Wave Converter program.

In Garageband, select Share -> Export Song to Disk. Make sure "Compress" is unchecked then click OK. This will save your song as an AIFF file. If you want individual tracks instead, solo the desired track before exporting.

In BR Wave Converter, select the desired song, click the Import button, select the destination track or track pair if stereo, then click the GO button. A standard Open dialog will appear, from which you can select your AIFF file. Click the Open button to begin the process.

[Auroran]

New guy here (new to the forum, recording veteran):

At the moment Im recording on the vs and using the br for effects etc.
Im thinking the br may be more suited to quieter songs like acoustic stuff etc as Ive heard good results on here.
Any thoughts?

The VS is 20bit (Sound on Sound says it's 16 bit). The BR is 24 bit.  Assuming the electronic components are similar quality= advantage BR. 

As for your monitoring situation, you don't need to turn the BR up. You need to turn the VS down. Unless the level on the BR headphones is ridiculously low, monitoring at a reasonable level will give you far more info than at a loud level. The "Loudness Wars" have warped all of our brains, mine included. Bottom line: if something only sounds good loud, there's something wrong.