Future Copyright - www.futurecopyright.com

[Hilary]

I've got a great face for radio too Burthog but I like to think it adds to the humour (think Susan Boyle's ugly, not quite so chique sister).

Maybe I am severely deluded, my songs are sh*t and I'm destined to stack shelves at Tescos but at least I'm trying, for now anyways.

On the Songcrafter front - I love this site, you are all so talented and supportive and I really enjoy listening to all your original songs and covers - there are new gems to discover every day. Let's face it, recording isn't my strong point, neither's playing the guitar - but sometimes I really just need to sing and it's great to know that you are listening.

xx

[64Guitars]

I don't think Songcrafters is the place for anyone who aspires to make money in the music business. Everyone's welcome, of course, but the music business isn't what Songcrafters is about. I think Songcrafters is for the millions of bedroom musicians who want to record their music and share it with other bedroom musicians, and anyone who cares to listen. Some may have had dreams of a music career when they were younger, but marriage, children, mortgages, etc. forced them to get a real job and give up their dreams. So now they just make music for the fun of it and want to share it freely. Most of us feel no need to worry about copyright. As AndyR suggested, in the unlikely event that anyone gets discovered through their posts at Songcrafters, they'll most likely have to write new material anyway, so it's best to look at your Songcrafters posts as free giveaways; your music résumé or CV, if you like.

I think the days of the music industry are numbered anyway. While it's true that the internet has allowed people to download a lot of copyright music illegally, I don't think that's what will ultimately kill the music industry. I think it will be largely due to sites like Songcrafters that make great music freely available to anyone without any copyright worries. They can download the music to their iPod, burn it to a CD, share it with their friends, or whatever. More and more musicians are discovering multitrack recorders like the Boss BR series and experiencing the joys of recording their own songs in their bedroom (or wherever). As more and more of these musicians share their music freely on sites like Songcrafters, and the quality of the music improves, there isn't much of a reason for anyone to buy music. Why should they when there's so much great music available absolutely free?

Also, copyright expires in most countries 50 to 90 years after the death of the author or, in the USA for example, after the date of creation or first publication. In the USA, everything published before 1923 is now in the public domain. Think of what that will mean for the future. In the latter half of this century, nearly all of the great music from the sixties and seventies will be public domain (Beatles, Stones, Elvis Presley, etc.). And the amount and quality of music freely available from sites like Songcrafters will be incredible. With all that great music freely available, how can the record companies possibly sell anything?

As Flash Harry suggested, if you're determined to make money with your music, the best way is by performing, not by selling records. And as AndyR said, protecting your songs by copyright isn't the problem. They're already protected as soon as you write them. The problem is in going to court to prove your claim to a song that someone has stolen from you. That takes lawyers and money, and there isn't much you can do beforehand that will make any difference. So don't worry about copyright. Worry about getting gigs instead. And making your recordings freely available on your website or elsewhere will help you to get those gigs because you can direct prospective employers to your site to check out your music. And if you can attract a large following on various sites, that will help too. But you can't do that if you guard your recordings so closely that no one gets to hear them. So I recommend sharing your recordings freely without worrying about copyright. If you happen to get discovered and signed to a record label, write new material and let the record company and music publishers worry about copyright. From the feedback you got from your freely-shared recordings, you'll have a better idea of what to write anyway. I should add that my views apply mainly to music recordings. I don't know anything about the comedy scene, though I suspect that much of what I've said will still apply.

If you really feel a need to worry about copyright, I'd suggest looking at the Creative Commons website. They have several licences that allow you to share your music freely to get the most exposure possible but restrict the use for commercial gain, etc.  To me, that's the only kind of copyright that makes sense for most bedroom musicians. It helps to prevent others from profiting from your work without a prior agreement, yet doesn't restrict your audience from downloading your songs and sharing them freely with their friends and family.

[launched]

Maybe I am severely deluded, my songs are sh*t and I'm destined to stack shelves at Tescos but at least I'm trying, for now anyways.

Nooo, you are definitely very unique! I think your vocal inflections and syncopated changeups are what I most enjoy about your performances. They are also extremely charming and funny, and the fact that you actually do play and sing well keeps the focus on you as a performer.

And as far as copywrighting and material protection, do what you think is best. I agree with others that say it's the performance that brings in the success, along with the ability to generate new material to follow up with. I also think if you have enough to make an album's worth, and if it were to be put up for sale, the contents should be copywritten.

In a sort of reply to something mentioned before, I dont think it is possible these days to be 100% original, this far down the line in music and comedy and other media we are all too well influenced to be purely original.

I agree - I find myself saying, "It sounds a little bit too much like <Insert Song Here>" a lot! Then I realize that everything I do has some form of hidden influence. It's been like that since the beginning of time I suppose.

[Hilary]

Thanks for your interesting comments - I guess I'm in a minority of one again, so nothing new there. As they say the proof's in the pudding, one way or another!

[Burtog]

Haylie - Dont change the way YOU want to do things, I was only looking at things from a personal perspective, which suits how I feel about what I do, I'm happy with it too, although it maybe appeared a bit negative?

If you have a plan and belief ---- GO for it!!

[Burtog]

Forgot to mention Osckilo has a thread somewhere of his musical journey I seem to remember, might be worth a look?

[Nelson]

Haylie
Don't worry yourself about people stealing your work. If you think you have something special and you're ready to test it by putting it out in the world,  just copyright it, If only for your peace of mind.
This week I received my official certificate of registration from the US Copyright office, for 25 songs, for which I paid $35... total.
With an official copyright in hand, lawyers may be more likely to take your case for nothing up front if they think there's a chance of a payout at the end.  Nothing is perfect but now I can just concentrate on what's important... improving the songs.

It is absolutely important that you find a group of folks you can run your work by. People whose opinions you trust and respect. I am seldom the best judge of my material and neither are my friends and family.

My mommy thinks I'm a genius.

There is the rub, who better to judge what you're doing then folks doing what you do. For us, its other songwriters / comedians and the best way to gage if our work is as good as we think, is to perform it for a live audience.
Songcrafters is like my live audience, who just happen to also be folks whose opinions I trust and respect. If I was doing small shows open mics etc. I would be using them to improve my songs by gaging the response of the audiences to the different parts of the songs and that's what I do with sites like this one.  Plus there's the added bonus of learning from folks, more technically proficient. 

If you're dead serious about your art it is imperative that you have that group of folks to bounce things off of, during your creative process, especially if you can't do a lot of test performances.

[Oldrottenhead]

do you think we might have a claim against bruno mars for his song the lazy song https://songcrafters.org/community/index.php?topic=6722.0 posted his vid at end of thread

[Hilary]

Thanks guys - Nelson it's very hard to record comedy without an audience to bounce off as it's a reactive and physical thing and with the greatest respect no-one ever says anything negative on here so is it really the best way to judge how good a song is?

There is also the fact that I predominantly sing about sex and I am virtually the only female on here - my songs could be miscontrued and put me in a potentially difficult position - sorry but as a female in a male environment it's unfortunately something I have to consider. I also feel I need to constantly justify myself on here and why should I, no-one else does and they sing and write about whatever the hell they like! Let's get this one out of the way now because I'm not saying it again - Yes they are just songs and no, I am really not using this as a dating site and couldn't be less interested in anyone!

This year I'm concentrating on gaining experience playing live so I am doing anything and everything from standing in a muddy puddle singing next to bumper cars where no-one can here a thing to playing at a 600 seat theatre and yes, I tailor what I do to a certain extent to the audience (the worse case scenario being I pack up and go home!)

The question I was asking is - what is the best way to protect my songs, I want to do this right. There is a UK copyright office which costs £289 for 10 songs and I would pay it if it's the best option but sounds like someone calling themselves it and ripping people off - I want to do this right and have had no previous experience of this. I just wondered what other people do and how they have protected their songs.

I was looking for a bit of mentoring not haranguing because of what I choose to do, or not to do with my songs.

[AndyR]

Haylie, I don't think anyone's haranguing you? I do hope not... I certainly didn't intend to myself, and MANY apologies if it sounds like I did.

All I can give you is my personal take - and for me, it's just not worth the effort to worry about protecting my copyright at the moment, and that's even knowing that I still have dormant aspirations to make a living out of it.

For you, if it feels important, it IS important, and you MUST do something about it. Which of the options you should go for, I'm afraid I really don't know - it doesn't really sound like any of us do. So I don't have the experience to guide you right.

If it was me, I'd probably go for the cheapest , but then I'd be left wondering whether I'd done the right thing. I did look a bit further at the website - not much, because it didn't inspire me to do anything about it for my stuff. But bear in mind this is a guy who doesn't tend to buy insurance unless he has to for legal reasons external to himself!