Future Copyright - www.futurecopyright.com

[Hilary]

Hi Guys - I'm considering using this site as it's been recommended in the latest Unsigned Muso mag and just wondered if anyone else uses it. According to the mag the following are myths

1. Just send a sealed envelope by recorded delivery to yourself - apparently this had never been accepted as a valid legal form of evidence in the UK.

2. It's on Youtube, Myspace, Soundcloud, Reverbnations etc etc - they say some of these websites take your rights away and recommend checking the T&C's when you sign up - I've tried to look into this and found no evidence of this but would appreciate any comments from you guys.

3. It's on my computer - as date/time settings can be easily changed on PCs, any files stored are not suitable evidence of any creation dates (also computers can get hacked and be vulnerable to viruses)

4. Store with a solicitor (not a myth but obviously costs money)

The Berne Convention is the international standard for copyright law and states that the minute you create something original, through whatever medium paper, audio, video etc it's is yours and therefore you own the copyright (or something like that - from memory!)

Apparently this website can also be used as a sharing website, once registered, like Soundcloud etc. I just wonder if anyone has any experience of the site and what other people do.

Thanks

btw Unsigned Musos is a really good mag, full of useful tips - this is in issue 2 which isn't on the net yet but here's the link to Issue 1 http://issuu.com/unsignedmusomag/docs/unsignedmusomag_issue1

[Oldrottenhead]

not very sure about the copyright stuff haylie but that magazine looks very interesting cheers. i recall swansong using a free copyright company for his songs. but cant find the link.

[Flash Harry]

Post your work here. It's your free publishing site. And your buddies all live here, and no one minds if you keep knives in your sock drawer......

[Hilary]

Flash Harry - the whole 'original song' thing is slightly different for me as I'm doing comedy - comedians don't put their acts on the web it's just too easy to rip off - they have a show reel for prospective clients and that's it. Obviously I trust everyone on here (you're like the family I've never had) but correct me if I'm wrong, anyone can come on this site and listen and download and there are lots of unscrupulous people out there. What would happen, if god forbid, the site folded (suppose you could say that about Future Copyright too).

(50 shades of Magnolia is out there because it's topical and if I leave it, I'll miss the boat)

I suppose with just 143 views it's not really something that I should worry about but with my luck, someone with a better network than me could have a break ripping off one of my songs and I'll still be pennyless, singing in the kitchen.

The best way I can describe my situation is that - a good joke is really funny the first time you've heard it - is it quite so funny the 2nd, 3rd or 4th time (eer no it really isn't) - ok maybe only two people have heard my jokes but if by any chance it gets to the masses via someone else, it sure as hell ain't gonna be funny by the time anyone gets to hear me.

[Flash Harry]

Escrow is really the only way that you can do it, and that costs.

Is it worth it for something as transitory as a joke? I'm a strong believer in the performance of material rather than the material itself.  I'd pay to see a band or a comedian even though I knew the bulk of the material, it's the way that the performer and the audience interact that counts - I've seen Billy Connolly more than once live, his material does change but he is so popular that you get to know the act before you see the act, it's still absolutely hilarious and gripping.

I have a favourite joke, known as the Ed Zachary joke in the family. I still cry laughing at it.

One of the troubles with copyright is that more than one person can get the same idea independently of the others. The winners in disputes of these occurrences are never the people with the ideas, but the leeches that sucker onto the creative people and bleed them dry.

Wear sandals.

[Hilary]

By jokes I mean my songs - and yeah if I was famous I'm sure people would want to see me perform them over and over (hopefully) but schelpping around comedy clubs (I should be so lucky) - recordings are banned, phone based or otherwise and if you play 1 club often you aren't allowed back for 12 months.

At the end of the day, it's my personal opinion and I have to go with my instinct and my instinct tells me not to post them (for the time being at least). I've said this before, I've come close to a couple of breaks over the past year which have fizzled to nothing. I can't keep putting myself and my family through this - if I'm still playing to two bikers in a pub in a year's time (who really aren't remotely interested) I'm going to post the lot and take up knitting!

[AndyR]

Umm... I'm wary of posting my take on this, please understand it's only the viewpoint I've reached and no-one else has to think of their stuff this way.

I used to worry about this. In fact, only a year or so ago, my stuff was on soundclick and set so that you could only stream and expressly not download.

When I found alonetone (thanks to osckilo and one or two others ), I read the blurb and realised the viewpoint I have now. I joined immediately and moved all my stuff there. It is freely available to all and sundry for download or whatever. The main thing is I want people to hear it. If someone wants to steal it, "f**k em", but also "good luck to them" - I do not care, I can always create more.

I spent many years, on and off, yearning to "make it". It made me very depressed. Now, if something comes of it, fine. But the main thing is, I need people to hear it and, hopefully, tell me they think it's wonderful. If they steal it, it is telling me they think or suspect that it is wonderful.


Your situation is somewhat different, though. I haven't got any real answers for your situation. Except maybe this - if I did create something that I thought was truly amazing, that might get me some income and general acclaim... I WOULD NOT SHARE IT HERE OR ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET... I would push it through other channels first (whatever they might be).

The problem with being unknowns is that no-one knows us. We will only get known if people see/hear what we have to offer. This kind of means that we have to offer our current output for free before it becomes apparent to us (or to people willing to stake the money to market us) that we might be more widely sought after.

I no longer have any aspirations for "big-time" or even making a meagre living out of my music. My life is much more valuable to me than music now (mine or anyone else's). But if the big-time did come along, I regard the material that I've published already as what I had to spend to achieve it.

The songs and jokes are entities in their own right - and therefore they are ready-made movable commodities that someone could use. But, for me, someone deciding I could make a living out of this lark will be based on the indication that I can and will create more and better stuff. For me, the material that indicates this is just the taster...

Since I've reached this conclusion... I've been able to create a lot more freely and, possibly, it's been higher quality. I'm certainly enjoying it a lot more myself.


I strongly suspect that this doesn't help you though , I wish I could.

Like you posted originally, anything we create and record (on disc, video, paper, wax-tablet, bar of soap, etc) we automatically own copyright to (until we assign the rights away, eg to a publisher so that the material may be exploited in the market-place). The problem is proving that we created it and didn't steal it from someone else.

I'm interested that this site's services appear to be free - if they weren't I'd have said "not worth it, they're just taking advantage of your fears to extract money from you". I might check them out further myself.

But do think of this – even with your copyright protected, it's still going to cost you an arm and a leg to enforce your rights if someone does have a go

[Hook]

Andy r speak all good words for hook believe. Andy R wise!

[Hilary]

I have faith in my songs and am just getting to the point where I have some faith in my ablities to perform them! I do feel that I have 2 very special songs at least, 1 in particular that I hope will define me as an artiste and I am trying 'other avenues' first. There is an interesting article from Lee Mack - I can't find the exact quote I'm after (which was something like - once my act's posted on Youtube I'm dead in the water) but here's the article

http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2009/feb/16/comic-hurst-fined-phone-smash

At this stage in my life it isn't a hobby, I am actually (in Haylie's world) trying to make a living out of this - albeit the most unsuccessful comic in history at the moment. Like I say, only time will tell. I do agree though about presentation and working an audience - my daughter said recently my stuff's not nearly as funny if you can't see my face - it's 80% of the show, good comics can make a joke literally out of nothing but anything less than 100% originality will not be tolerated on the comedy circuit.

AndyR - yes it is free and was recommended by the Live and Unsigned muso mag.

[Burtog]

This thread makes interesting reading for sure!

I haven't yet posted any original material on this site yet but I will some day. I think when that day comes I will know what I put together is ok as I like to think I have a reasonable ear for a good track.

I dont think there is any part of me that believes I am ever going to make a living with music and in that respect I would post on this site without a thought to others nicking any material I may provide. If one day someone ever did steal my material I would probably take this as a compliment and then try and flog them more material!!

I could write an amazing song and perform it perfectly well but with a face for radio I'm never gonna make it onto MTV. 

I also know there is some top songwriting talent on this site which unfortunately will never make it into the mainstream but
for me knowing other like minded people appreciate anything you do is..................................all I want.

I've been in many bands, done demos with very limited success and found I dont always enjoy it, on this site I can do what I want when I want, that's why it works for me.

In a sort of reply to something mentioned before, I dont think it is possible these days to be 100% original, this far down the line in music and comedy and other media we are all too well influenced to be purely original.

Sorry, gone off topic a bit aint I!!