Music Videos - discuss... generally :-)

[Oldrottenhead]

i am i the unfortunate position of having teenage and preteen daughters and you guessed it mtv and the various derivatives are on (except when the soaps are on) 24/7. if you ever have the misfortune to sit through the chart rundown (yeah the videos all suck) but the music aaargh!!! don't get me started, but no matter what genre the song is in they all sound the same, apparently 90% of stuff in the "charts" are mastered by the same two guys. hence the similarities.

i dare anyone to listen to the chart rundown on the radio (i wouldn't wish the mtv version on my worst enemy) and get what i mean.

[Hilary]

Just wanted to say Steve Tyler is just about the sexiest man on the planet still at 64 and I'm not the only one that thinks so!

[Hilary]

I've a question for you, mostly aimed at Andy because he kicked this off, but food for thought -

If a record exec phoned you up tomorrow and offered you a recording contract and wanted to put out one of your songs as a single with a video, would you refuse? Would you stop it being played on MTV or Youtube? Would you say no to one of your songs being used in a film or advert or would you see it was another medium to enable your music to reach a much wider audience?

I know what I'd do!


Hey we've got our own debating society - how cool is that!

[IanR]

Pictures speak a thousand words


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjpkVv9OrZQ

[AndyR]

I've a question for you, mostly aimed at Andy because he kicked this off, but food for thought -

If a record exec phoned you up tomorrow and offered you a recording contract and wanted to put out one of your songs as a single with a video, would you refuse? Would you stop it being played on MTV or Youtube? Would you say no to one of your songs being used in a film or advert or would you see it was another medium to enable your music to reach a much wider audience?

I know what I'd do!


Hey we've got our own debating society - how cool is that!

It's a really good question and one I/we had to consider in the 80s (but it never came to it!! )

The answer then (from me, but not others in the band) was "of course not, if we want to do business and make a living, we have to work the existing market that we have decided to go into".

There were all sorts of discussions around could we take a more "alternative" stand and refuse to play the game by the prevailing rules (this more about marketing in general, some of the band were quite keen to make films and be on MTV!). But I didn't think we'd find ourselves in a big enough position of power to force that (or even for it to be in our best interests). The days of that sort of thing seemed long gone.


Now, it's a different matter. I think it's unlikely to happen, but if I was offered a recording contract I think I'd be inclined to go "are you sure? that's not what I'm after, what else have you got to offer?" anyway.

I don't want to market myself as a product anymore. I would like to be able to make a living out of marketing my products. So I'd be very happy to be a songwriter. In that case I'd want to be as independent as possible and get as much of the royalties as possible - probably means individual song deals to start with and then set up my own publisher when the name gets round. But other than that, once it's a job, "exploit, exploit, exploit"!!! Get the songs placed and earning as often and as much as possible.

You can stick it on MTV, chocolate boxes, whatever, I don't care as long as you pay me for the privilige . The main thing as far this discussion is concerned, though, I wouldn't be the artist, so I don't have to worry about the videos. I did the bit I'm good at, someone else can do the bit they're good at (selling themselves and using my song to do it), and they can worry about their bad acting, zits, etc in whatever video extravaganza their management/production team think is needed to further their career.


But I'm not expecting none of that to happen. Especially because I'm not actively chasing it. However, if someone did come along, I'd be in quite a strong position - a) they came to me, and b) I have a huge back log of unused songs, if writer's block appeared the minute someone waved cash at me, I'm still set!!

[henwrench]

Generally speaking I don't like music videos, as the sense of sight is not what I need to be stimulated when my sense of hearing is being adequately satisfied. In fact it rather saddens me to think that the record labels still insist bands waste their advance money on the production of these ridiculous 'films'. A while back, the average cost a label would recommend a band spend on the audio recording of a song would be about £5,000. A very, very average video would be costed at around £75,000. From a business point of view, it doesn't make any sense to spend £75,000 to promote a product that cost £5,000 to 'make'. Little wonder the recording industry is on it's knees. They fucked up. They know it, you know and that's why the music industry has been blown wide open and ugly freaks with busted teeth get songs played on the radio. It's fucking brilliant.....vive la revolution. Or something.

                                                                        henwrench

[AndyR]

That's kind of what worried me back in the early 80s, Henny. We didn't know the figures - and even now I'm a bit shocked about the relative amounts - but I was "why on earth spend a bunch of my money on creating something I'm not even interested in?!" ... because that's the way the game works... AGH!!

(And for those who don't know - the "advance" is offset against potential artiste earnings. So if you don't make it, ok, you don't owe nothing. But if your song does make a profit, the first £75K of your earnings are ear-marked to pay the label for that video you "wanted".)

With those percentages (spend 1500% of what it cost to record the song on a promotional film), I'd have gone "sod that, we'll record the first three albums instead"...

"They" might not have like that idea, though, and from their point of view I can see how that strategy might have seemed somewhat risky! . (Especially, if I'd let on that half the band would be thinking "yeah give us the £75K, we'll drink 70 of it and then easily do the three albums on the rest..." - and to be honest, I'd have had a spot of trouble with that, that's when "musical differences" might have kicked in!!)

Anyway, it's this side of it that prejudiced me against videos all the way back then, and I've never really got over it. I've never seen anything in a video that makes me think "ooh I like that medium, I wanna get involved". They're just something that happens, some are good, some are, well, not... but I certainly don't go out of my way to see any of them.

[Oldrottenhead]

i tnink the correct term is promotional video. basically adverts for the song.

[dobrodaddy]

I just close my eyes and listen to the music....

Having said that - I don't watch MTV, I don't listen to the radio much, and I just don't give a damn.  I also don't have kids forcing me to encounter new music.  [My hat's off to you ORH!] Tho to be fair I learned about Son Volt and Gillian Welch  from college age musicians. 

I'm pretty iconoclastic in my tastes.  Music, food, art, reading material.  I like all kinds of music, but there are a lot of genres I have no use for or tire of very quickly.  What I don't do is to claim to have cornered the market on musical knowledge or sanity.  Music is highly subjective within a generation and even more so across generations.  I don't like the same music as the 'average' listener and I don't expect them to necessarily like what I listen to or play.

I didn't like punk until I met some younger musicians who cut their teeth on it.  I still don't care for most of it, but I understand it as a response to the big hair/guitar god bands which dominated the airwaves as punk emerged.  Same w rap.  I hate a lot of the lyrics, but a lot of early blues and country were tales of violence and misogyny.  Not to mention the old English murder ballads. 

Martin raises a really good point about corporate money influencing the marketing of music back in the 40s, 50s, 60s.  I'd track that all the way back to Mozart and Bach and before.  Money simultaneously corrupts music and allows it to flower.  Well, the people with the money...

I'm obviously not playing music for my occupation and there was never much risk of that.  I had a decent day job that kept me in strings, equipment, and gas money.  To me the most real musical experiences are among friends swapping songs, teaching each other licks, and getting down the road.  Very much like it is here, except this is virtual.  No huge living room or porch.  The trick is to keep pushing myself and gravitate towards better players.  Tho I do note that many 'full-time' musicians are reluctant to put in too much time w 'part-timers' like me.  Understandable.

There's an endless cycle of creative underground musical revolutions that become mainstream to the extent that they becomes a parodies of themselves and then it's time for the next revolution.  I don't think the  corporations dictate the revolutions, but they are increasingly quick to pounce on and 'promote' music they think will appeal to the mass market(s).  Now they seek out 'cool kids' to identify and promote 'the next cool thing'.  They don't mess too much w the jazz and classical players. 

To answer Haylie's question: movie - most likely, ad - maybe, music video - doubtful.  I'd be real skeptical about ever seeing [or keeping] the big money.  I'm sure it's a wild experience to tour with or in a big name band, but that grind has killed off an awful lot of talent. 

A lot of musicians [and listeners] are like fundamentalists - always on the search for 'heretics and hypocrites'.  Ever ready to raise the sword to defend their sacred stuff.  That always strikes me as the height of insecurity.  I try to keep open ears, an open  mind, and an open heart, but I can't deny what moves me and what doesn't. 

I like to say that I play for sanity, not for applause, but I find myself coming back here quickly and repeatedly to see if there are any new reviews to my most recent post. I guess the difference is I care what you folks think.  I don't care what most people think.... but I am ready to hear an interesting idea no matter where it comes from.

AndyR has the right idea.  Do what you do best, create a big catalog, and keep your powder dry.

I share your dismay that EVERYONE has to be photogenic these days - musicians, politicians, professors, news casters, everyone.  Gets real tiresome.....  We're losing our ability to appreciate a wrinkled, wizened visage [well, except Steve Tyler's LOL!]  Thanks for listening and thanks for a stimulating exchange of ideas.   DD

[Oldrottenhead]

well said dd i empathize with all you said and i am very very drunk



hic burp fart


music is my first love and it will be my last


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am seriously tempted to post latest jemima's kite work in progress but learnt my lesson the last time

y'all huv tae wait it's a fecvkjng belter