Shine - AndyR Original

[Hilary]

Thanks some more folks

Can't find a fault with this.

I can!

Crikey you sound just like me Andy (I'm never happy with my efforts either) - let's make a pact now, never to do a collaboration together - pinky swear now.

[AndyR]

No worries. I have done the odd collaboration, but there's no danger of me seeking them out at the moment - mostly I'm happiest as a one man band, and I don't really have enough time for that. I have a huge number of songs that I've been meaning to record for ages, but the pile just keeps getting bigger - everytime I go to record one, a new one gets written (that's what's happened this time).

Anyway, as I see it there's nothing wrong with never being quite happy - there's nothing to reach for next time if you think it's perfect!

I have to admit, though, quietly(!) I'm always very happy with what I post - it might have the odd issue that I would have fixed if I'd noticed it when it didn't cost too much to put right. But if the issue was big enough, I would either fix it before posting or scrap it.

I'm quite happy pointing an issue out (in this forum anyway), usually later down the thread so it's not too distracting, because I think it might help others. I hope no-one reads it as some sort of false-modesty, or something. It isn't, I'm usually VERY proud of what I've just done!

This recording thing seems to be all about training your ears (and learning what to accept as "it's done"). I kind of feel that if I'm happy to point out "I messed this bit up, and now I know why...", then it might be useful to somebody. If they can't hear an issue I point out, then I might be worrying needlessly and no harm done either way. But if they can, then they might go "oh! I wouldn't have spotted that, I'll look out for it in mine next time" (which is kind of what I'm doing myself anyway ).

[stoman]

I listened to this song on Alonetone and commented it there too. Andy, you outdid yourself again. Great work, and PLEASE don't try and fix all the alleged flaws! I cannot hear any, and if they are there, they only add to the great feel.

Good to hear a new song from you.

Regards,
  Steffen

[Bluesberry]

Welcome the heck back.............with this monster............lovely monster...........oh yes, you got away with it all right...........and reading about your writing/recording method was just fantastic........its amazing how things evolve when you let the song take you where it will during the recording, but of course you need time and space and all your gear out and set up to record like this, but it is a very fun way to go......and yes, every decision you made here paid off big time.........too bad about the Gilmour/Clapton solo, I would have loved to hear that, you felt it was not going to fit, and you are probably right, but man, would I ever have loved to hear you stretch out on your 335.......any chance for the out-take version with solo.....just kidding.......Lovely song, fantastic song, inspiring song, grooving song......all that and more.

[AndyR]

It never got recorded BB! I was playing it early on when rehearsing for the "lead" guitar part. So the final lead vox wasn't there, nor any of the backing vox. Not much in the way of organ was confirmed either. Oh, and possibly more relevant to this particular lead, the main acoustics, the one down the middle and the "gypsy refrains" hadn't been recorded. When that acoustic down the middle is taken out, the intro sounds a bit flat and boring - that's why I was playing a lead on it, but I was only getting an inspiring run through maybe one in ten times with the lead. When I put the acoustic on, there it was, this nice crisp but laid back "walk" into the song. Dave or Eric adding "icing" would have distracted from that.

I was doing it (all this lead guitar investigation and "arrangement" jamming) on a variety of strats first, and then every guitar on the wall . This happened over the course of a few weeks - a snatched half hour here and there, getting used to the room, etc. I wrote the gypsy parts on a strat during that time. I also discovered that the "School's Out" riff fitted on the last verse - it was a joke at first, but then I kinda liked it. After I found that the organ could join in by playing "jazzy" chords (deliberately, there is NO agreement at all in the backing band as to whether these chords are major or minor! ), the School's out riff stayed.

I was finding that the "lead" stuff was gravitating to the 335 - I have a feeling that this is going to feature quite a bit in future. It has a warmth and depth and cuts as well, and it can do "light" for which I always used to use single-coils - VERY versatile, especially since I changed pickups in it.

When I started commiting to parts, I put the acoustics on. That's when I discovered (after waiting a week and listening to it on and off) that the acoustics had to carry the gypsy stuff.

Next came the strats. They'd been deprived of the gypsy part they wrote, and deprived of the "lead guitar" (what I imagine that I, as lead vocalist, could play while singing) part as well - a strat wouldn't be rich enough for what I fancied. But on the audible multi-layered guitar parts I wanted cut and not too much body from each guitar. I very nearly got the Red Special out, but I didn't want it to go too "Brian May", and I felt a kind of loyalty to the two strats that wrote the parts! So I used them for the chorus harmony guitars and for the heavy riffing in the last verse (it's a LOT heavier than shows in this mix!!).

Then I did the lead vocal and a couple of sketches for backing vox.

That's when the 335 came out to do the "lead" part. And that's when I found that the carefully scripted "improvisational" lead lines were no longer appropriate. So what it did instead was the delicate high chords in the verses, some deliberately unlearnt jangly bits in the first two choruses, the restrained but rhythmic single note harmony riffing that keeps cropping up (kind of southern-rock Lynyrd Skynyrd type stuff), the doubling of the organ motiff/hook in the outro (that's in all of the choruses but way down because it clashes with the other hooks - so I decided to use it "subconsciously" early on then spotlight it on the outro, because it's quite a good hook for a fade), oh, and, the 335 also does various bright "splash chord" overdubs wherever a big chord entry didn't have enough top to it.


I quite like this way of working, it's easier on a BR1600 than it is on an MBR, and it seems to get close to the mood I'm looking for. But I'm somewhat envious of folks (eg Greeny) who can get the effect I want with just one or two guitar parts (instead of my 16 plus!!).

I'm fairly sanguine about it though - one day I might manage to get a stripped down band thing sounding how I want it to. For the moment I'm quite happy to use the Jimmy Page and Rory Gallagher approach - hmmm, doesn't sound quite right yet, better put some more guitars on!


Steffen- don't worry (too much), all of the flaws were left in deliberately. With the exception of the masked lead-vocal issue, and I can probably live with that (I definitely would have fixed that one if I'd spotted it during mixing). The way I look at it, especially if I'm putting this much stuff on it, I can't afford to have everything pristine and perfect - it won't sound right then.

My criteria for "fixing" or not has developed into "oops, will that distract the listener and interrupt the flow of vibes?...." and "oops, has that covered up the 'message' of the the song?..." That's about it it, I'm not worried about sloppy playing unless it breaks either of those two. I even left some drop-out on one of the guitar parts, it's terrible if you solo it, but I couldn't hear it in the mix and I reckoned it was probably adding to the sub-conscious mojo!

[The Gobi Desert Canoe Club]

Hi Andy, heard this on the other side, great to give it another listen. Top Notch...............Willie

[Bluesberry]

Andy, I enjoy reading about your method almost as much as I enjoy listening to your songs.  Of course if it came down to the choice between your songs or your prose I would choose your songs every time.  But, having said that, I really enjoy reading your descriptions of your method, and all the little choices you make, and all the things you try while working towards a finished song.  It is very fun to re-live the recording process with you via these great posts. Thanks for taking the time to write some of this stuff out, I am very grateful for the birds-eye view and it always inspires me to push myself a bit more on my recordings.

[AndyR]

It was all for you BB

I like writing them up if I know someone wants to hear about it, no worries (and it beat doing work at that moment!)

[stone1745]

nice lyrics and music i thought it was great

[Farrell Jackson]

The organ is tops! This is some very good songwriting Andy. Your vocals work for me from beginning to end. I like it all!

BTW, have you seen those room reflection grabbers that attach to the mic stand behind the mic? I've not used one but they get great reviews at about $100 US. I use a similar make shift set up with heavy towels hanging behind my mic that greatly reduces the room reflections....although I'm not hearing any in your vocals.....well done!

Farrell