*WAV CONVERTER* changing sound quality?

[Burtog]

I have really had a problem with my last song mix.

I recorded the song, all going very well, track sounded fantastic on playback on the BR 800, bounced some tracks leaving the BASS and VOX alone so they could be tweaked at the mastering stage if required. Mastered it and WAV converted to the PC then opened in Audacity.

I played back in audacity and the bass is either too loud or lost and muddy with certian notes almost completely missing? I remixed 8 differnet times and still a similar problem. (I even redid the bass track)

Why does the sound change at this conversion, apart from second guessing the changes is there anything I can do?

Would I be better transfering the individual tracks to audicity and working on there?

EQing - I try tweaking the settings a bit but does anyone have a guide about which instruments to tweak and how??

[Geir]

Just to be sure what you are asking:

1. Do you use the same equipment for listening (headphones/monitors)?
2. Do you use the BR800 as the soundcard when playing it from Audacity?
3. You are sure you're listening to the same tracks, and that no mastering/track-effects are used when listening on the BR800?

If yes to all of the above I'm clueless !

[Burtog]

Hi Geir, thanks for reply.

1. Do you use the same equipment for listening (headphones/monitors)?
I have been using some Sony VDR600 studio headphones which recently gave me better results, maybe I should record with them and mix with more standard headphones?
2. Do you use the BR800 as the soundcard when playing it from Audacity?
When I am playing on audacity it is just playing the wav file now on PC which has just been converted across isn't it?
3. You are sure you're listening to the same tracks, and that no mastering/track-effects are used when listening on the BR800?
I can get a good sound with ot without the mastering effects on the BR but the final mix converted to WAV has always been through mastering effects and I have used different ones to check fiffernce such as LIVE / MIX DOWN and SOFTComp.

I have struggled with mixes before but thought I was getting the hang of it, I have been turning the bass way don in the mix before converting as I know it changes it in audacity. Maybe I should re-load audacity?

[Burtog]

Another thought,...............If you master tracks onto 7/8 v8 for the final but dont like it, is it ok just to master over the top of this or best to select blank tracks??

[Geir]

Hi Geir, thanks for reply.

1. Do you use the same equipment for listening (headphones/monitors)?
I have been using some Sony VDR600 studio headphones which recently gave me better results, maybe I should record with them and mix with more standard headphones?

But you did use the sony VDR600s on both listening from the BR800 and from the computer?

2. Do you use the BR800 as the soundcard when playing it from Audacity?
When I am playing on audacity it is just playing the wav file now on PC which has just been converted across isn't it?

What I meant is that you can use the BR800 as an external sound-card on the computer. Then you would eliminate that the differences came from using a possibly crappy PC soundcard!?

3. You are sure you're listening to the same tracks, and that no mastering/track-effects are used when listening on the BR800?
I can get a good sound with ot without the mastering effects on the BR but the final mix converted to WAV has always been through mastering effects and I have used different ones to check fiffernce such as LIVE / MIX DOWN and SOFTComp.

Have you compared the final mix (on T78V8) played on the BR800, with ALL effects turned OFF, to the same tracks transferred to the PC and played from Audacity?

I have struggled with mixes before but thought I was getting the hang of it, I have been turning the bass way don in the mix before converting as I know it changes it in audacity. Maybe I should re-load audacity?

I also struggle with the mastering, vocals and bass are the most difficult to get right so that they sound good on many different soundsystems (from monitors to cheep mp3 players). I also find that the conversion to mp3 often makes the vocals be more prominent than on the wave-file.

Another thought,...............If you master tracks onto 7/8 v8 for the final but dont like it, is it ok just to master over the top of this or best to select blank tracks??

It doesn't matter. No need to delete it unless the new mastering is shorter than the first.

[launched]

I use Audacity to mix a lot of songs from my MBR. I've found that if I don't export all the tracks separately, it is difficult to mix a submix with fresh tracks using Audacity and sometimes Cubase.

I have also discovered that the BR recorders (I've used an MBR, BR80 and BR800) have a higher tolerance for db levels and can sound very hot when using a DAW, even when sounding fine on the unit itself - I sometimes have to normalize when I see a few red lines when using Audacity. I don't think it's clipping, just a sensitive program, maybe?

I'd try importing all the tracks, make sure the levels are not "hot" and normalize before using the db slider in Audacity, removing any red lines from the tracks.

I also agree with Guru Geir, learned a lot from him, to master with no effects. Mastering with effects/eq/etc will render a submix unusable for the most part.

Mark

[Burtog]

Thanks guys for the continued feedback.............much appreciated.................I'm learning!

What I meant is that you can use the BR800 as an external sound-card on the computer. Then you would eliminate that the differences came from using a possibly crappy PC soundcard!?
I'd never thought of that, the PC plays all other music really well so it never occured to me, these days I use the PC for playing all music, ususally through headphones!

I use the VDR headphones for recording and mixing as they give a truer sound but listen to the mp3 in regular headphones as I assume it would sound to everyone else.

I also agree with Guru Geir, learned a lot from him, to master with no effects. Mastering with effects/eq/etc will render a submix unusable for the most part.

I maybe need to start using audacity to mix with now? So far I have only used for trimming and mp3 conversion, I've done all the mastering on the BR800, sometimes to good effect but not on the last tune.

[64Guitars]

It's extremely unlikely that the wave converter is affecting the sound quality. As Geir said, it's important to make your comparisons through the same playback system so you're not comparing apples and oranges. So be sure to use the BR-800 as an audio interface for playback of your computer's sound. The instructions are on page 121 of the BR-800 manual. First, connect your BR-800 to your computer with a USB cable. Then open Audacity's Preferences and select Devices. In the drop-down list for Playback, you should see the BR-800 listed. Select it and click OK. Then plug your headphones into the BR-800 (the same headphones you used when you listened to the mix from the BR) and play the song in Audacity. It should sound about the same as it did when you listened to the tracks on the BR. If it doesn't, then you must be doing something in Audacity that's changing the sound.

Another way to listen to the Audacity mix on the BR-800 is to export it from Audacity as a WAV file (16-bit Microsoft), then use the BR Wave Converter software to import that WAV file to a pair of tracks on the BR-800. You can then select that pair of tracks in the V-Tracks screen and listen to the Audacity mix for comparison.

[64Guitars]

Another thought,...............If you master tracks onto 7/8 v8 for the final but dont like it, is it ok just to master over the top of this or best to select blank tracks??

You can master over top of it, but keep in mind that you can master to any of the BR-800's 64 tracks; not just tracks 7/8v8. Those are only the default destination tracks. You can change it by turning the wheel. The reason that you might want to select an unused pair of tracks rather than record over tracks 7/8v8 is that your second attempt at mastering might turn out worse than the first. If you've run out of time and/or patience, you might want to use that first mastering attempt rather than trying again. But, if you've recorded over it, you won't have that option. So, as long as you've got empty tracks available, it's best to use them rather than recording over previous work and burning your bridges behind you.

[T.C. Elliott]

Already noted, but make sure there isn't effects being used in playback that hasn't been printed onto the tracks themselves. ie, selecting a compressor or other effect but not actually bouncing the track to a new track with that effect being present.

I generally take all my recorded tracks and convert to wav and import into my DAW (Reaper) and then mix. For two reasons. One, that tiny screen on the BR sucks, and two, All of my effects can be undone. On the BR-900 you only have one degree of undo. Although from what little I've used mastering and other effects on the BR, they are useful and good. It's just harder to use them, imo.