***HELP!*** BR800 bouncing tracks!!!

[Burtog]

Gotta admit the BR800 manual is poor!

I've got to the point for the frist time that I need to bounce so I can add further tracks. I've trawled through loads of posts but maybe I'm missing a previous post on this topic??

If I used all my tracks up and needed more I then need to bounce..............but should I bounce to 7/8 v tracks as I have for mastering OR do I bounce somewhere else and then recored the remaing tracks I need along-side???

Please help, I'm a technological simpleton

Has anyone bought that DVD for BR800 users, kind of a bulletproof manual, just wondered if it was worth the bother,I think 64 has mentioned before somewhere.

[cuthbert]

I don't have the BR-800, but I do have the BR-80 which also has eight tracks.

I'd say bounce where you want to: Tracks 7/8 v2 sounds fine to me, and when that's done, notch all your other tracks to v2 and you should be good to go with the next round of additions.

[64Guitars]

If I used all my tracks up and needed more I then need to bounce..............but should I bounce to 7/8 v tracks as I have for mastering OR do I bounce somewhere else and then recored the remaing tracks I need along-side???

All of the BR-800's 64 tracks have the same capabilities. No one track or track pair is better-suited to any particular purpose than any of the other tracks. So you can bounce to any pair of tracks you like. Of course, you should ensure that the track pair you choose is empty so that you don't overwrite a previous recording. But, other than that, the only consideration in chosing the bounce destination tracks is organisation. I like to record all of my base tracks starting with v-track 1 and working up, and all of my bounces and masters on v-track 8 working down. This makes it a lot easier to distinguish the bounces and masters from the base tracks when viewed in BR Wave Converter or BR Explorer.

(click image to view full size in browser)

Also, it helps if you use different tracks for your bounces than you use for your masters. So, for example, you might always use tracks 7/8 v8 for your master (and 78v7, 78v6, etc, if needed), and tracks 5/6 v8 (and v7, v6, v5, etc.) for bounces. If you have a lot of bounces, you could also use tracks 3/4 v8 (v7, v6, etc) and/or 1/2 v8 (v7, v6, etc).

Of course, the eight currently-selected v-tracks do not have to be the same. So, after the bounce, you could set tracks 5 and 6 to v-track 8 and the rest of the tracks to v-track 2 (assuming v-track 2 is empty on all 6 tracks). Then you can monitor your previous mix on 5/6 while recording new tracks on 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, and 8.

Has anyone bought that DVD for BR800 users, kind of a bulletproof manual, just wondered if it was worth the bother,I think 64 has mentioned before somewhere.

I have a copy. It's quite good, especially for beginners as a gentler introduction to the features of the BR-800 than the manual provides. I've been meaning to write up a review of the video but haven't got around to it yet. Anyway, I'd recommend it.

http://www.proaudiodvds.com/product-p/br-800.htm?Click=2040

[Burtog]

Thanks 64 and Cuthbert!!

SO, lets see if I've got it.

I bounce to a pair of v-tracks of my choice, say 7/8 v2. I'd already recorded a track on 7/8 as 1,2,3,4,5/6.
When I have done this and play it back (bounced tracks) do I have to select the bounced tracks to play back or will it play these automatically and will 1,2,3,4,5/6 appear blank or do I just record over the top of what was there before for the second round of recording?

Sorry, hope my waffling makes sense?

[64Guitars]

Normally, after a bounce, the BR will automatically increment the v-track selection of the six unused tracks to the next available track so that you're ready to record six more tracks. However, you shouldn't rely on this, especially when you're unsure of how v-tracks and bouncing works. Instead, you should always check the V-Track screen which will show you which eight tracks are currently selected, and whether they're empty or not. See page 39 of the BR-800 manual.

Part of the reason that people find bouncing confusing is that Roland markets the BR-800 as an 8-track recorder. That's really not true. It's a 64-track recorder with a built-in 8-channel mixer. So think of the fader controls as mixer channels rather than tracks. Each of these mixer channels has 8 of the 64 tracks available to it exclusively. But you can only select one of these eight tracks at a time. The current track selection for a given mixer channel is called the "v-track" or "virtual track". This is very misleading terminology since it suggests that there are two types of tracks available in the BR -- regular tracks and v-tracks. This is not true. All 64 tracks in the BR are regular tracks. There are no other kinds. A v-track is not a track at all. It's merely an indication of the mixer channel track assignment. Imagine that the BR had an 8-position rotary switch below each fader control which selects one of the eight tracks available to that channel for playback and recording. The term "v-track" refers to the position of that switch. Regardless of its position, the switch assigns a real track to that mixer channel, not some sort of "virtual" track. Instead of a big rotary mechanical switch, you select the track assignment for each mixer channel using the V-Track screen (page 39). The BR tries to assist you with track assignment by offering reasonable default values. For example, when you create a new song, each mixer channel is assigned the first of the eight available tracks (known as v-track 1). You're free to change this assignment, and any of the other 56 tracks would work just as well, but v-track 1 seems like a sensible place to start so it makes a good default value. After bouncing, the BR tries to help with track assignment again by setting two of the mixer channels to the two destination tracks of the bounce so that you can monitor it, and the remaining six mixer channels to the next available track so that you can record new material on them while listening to your mix on the other two channels. But, again, these are just the defaults that the BR provides for your convenience. You're free to change them on the v-track screen.

Another mistake that beginners often make (again, because Roland describes the BR as an 8-track recorder), is to assume that they have to leave two tracks available for the bounce destination. In other words, they might record only tracks 1 through 6, then bounce those six tracks to tracks 7 and 8. This is completely unnecessary. As I've said, the BR has 64 tracks, not 8. You're limited to 8 at a time for recording and playback due to the mixer section only having 8 channels. But you can choose any of the 64 tracks for your bounce destination. Therefore, you can record all 8 tracks (rather than just 6) before you need to bounce. Of course, after your first bounce, you'll need to monitor the two tracks containig your mix, so you're limited to six tracks at a time for recording new material after you've bounced. But before the bounce, all 8 tracks are available for recording. You don't need to reserve any for bouncing.

See this page for more on v-tracks and bouncing:

https://songcrafters.org/64guitars/BR/Tutorials/V-Tracks_and_Bouncing.html

[64Guitars]

One more thing. Before you do your first bounce, it would be a good idea to either backup your song using BR Song Librarian or backup the whole memory card as described in the manual, just in case you accidentally overwrite some of your tracks.

And check the V-Tracks screen frequently so that you always know which of the 64 tracks you're playing back and which you're recording to. Checking the V-Tracks screen frequently will help you to understand v-tracks and bouncing. For example, look at the V-Tracks screen when you start a new song. Look at it before you do your first bounce. Then look at it again immediately after the bounce and note the differences. Look at it again after mastering. Make sure you understand, when viewing the V-tracks screen, which tracks are your base tracks, which are your bounces, and which are your master.

[Burtog]

Thanks 64, this is becoming clearer now, gonna have a crack at this tomorrow night. Thanks for your time and good advice as always!!

[Geir]

Be sure to selct V-track 2 on all the tracks after bouncing, as the BR800 won't do it for you. (Neither do the mbr as far as I can recall).

[64Guitars]

Thanks Geir. I did not know that. The BR-864 (and, as far as I know, the BR-600, 900, and 532) automatically increments the tracks after a bounce. I guess they've changed that on the newer BRs. In a way, I prefer the newer behaviour. Automation leads users to have faith that the BR will magically do what they want it to do, and frustration and confusion when it doesn't. Without automation, the user is forced to learn and understand the BR in order to make it do what he wants. Though this requires more effort, it gives the user more control over the BR and more confidence in using it. So making the user manually select their v-tracks may be a good thing.

[cuthbert]

Be sure to selct V-track 2 on all the tracks after bouncing, as the BR800 won't do it for you. (Neither do the mbr as far as I can recall).

That is correct - the Micro BR and the BR-80 will not automatically select the next v-track for you after bouncing.

I wouldn't trust 'em anyway!