Seen another device you like?

[lemonstar]

Like others here, I can't get to grips with Cubase, Reason and PC-based recording.....All the PC stuff leaves me cold.

It's good to see someone say it too... I come from a very techy background but I want to enjoy making my music without too much hassle.

If I feel material reaches the stage where it needs a proper multitracker, then I think it's time to go to a studio!

I've had the same thoughts. I'm no drummer or bass player but I want to start putting drums and bass on my demos. My PC is cluttered with software and it takes a lot of fiddling about to get the soundcard and device drivers working every time I start up Cubase/Reason - there are always timing issues with trying to sync drums and when laying down other tracks during playback of previously recorded tracks - I think it would be better to have all the PC based music software on a laptop that has almost nothing else installed on it but I don't have that option at the moment. I want to have another crack at the February Album Writing Month www.fawm.org (14 new songs in the month of Feb) and want to do something more than record 1 take demos on my camera.

[Flash Harry]

I've had the same thoughts. I'm no drummer or bass player but I want to start putting drums and bass on my demos.

Just a suggestion, put your tracks on the collaboration forum and ask for a bass and drum input. Others do so quite successfully.

[lemonstar]

Hmm - that would never have occured to me. Perhaps I'll give that a go - I have a song on the go at the moment - you know the type - it's tantalisingly close to being finished (I thnk) and that makes me believe that with another couple of hours all the pieces will just fall into place with a little of that as yet undiscovered musical and lyrical glue that I haven't quite got my hands on...yet. I've/it's - been in that state for over a week now.

[lemonstar]

I'm certainly considering the the BR-600 but I was favouring something like the Zoom HD8 CD as it has such a large feature set but I've been put off by the reviews here:-

http://www.musicbanter.com/stereo-production-equipment/31579-zoom-hd8.html

which brand it as an extremely awkward piece of kit to use and I know that, although I'm tempted by the drums/effects/other features of the Zoom, if it's not going to be natural or (relatively) easy to use, then I won't end up using it. Does anyone here know of any any other devices between these two (in cost, say £200 - £400) that I might also want to try and look at)? I'm going to look for some down to earth, hands on reviews of the Tascam DP-02 (the YouTube vids I looked at weren't that much use). The DP-02 is about £325 (with 40G HD/CD burner) and DP-02CF (Compact Flash Version) is around £200. I don't know how the DP-02CF compares with the BR-600 in terms of the fine detail - I think the Boss has the advantage of having a pair of internal mics but it's a USB 1 transfer compared with USB 2 for the Tascam (not a deal breaker)

Fostex MR-8 (flimsy/plasticy - I read somewhere). The BR-600 isn't normally supplied with a power adapter so I have to either get that in the deal or buy it seperately - is that right? (ANything else I really need to get at the same time?). The BR-600 has 128K internal memory (is that right?) - I don't know what the implicatiosn are for the device but 128K was a lot in the days of the ZX+3 Spectrum (over 20 years ago!) ALso the max flash card size is 1GB is that right ? There seemed to be some confusion on whether it was 1 or 2G from what I've read but the small memory size concerns me as it's harder to buy a 1G card (is it CF or not? - There are thick (old) and thin card (newer)) these days than a 2, 4, or 8G card. The original CF standard used to say up to 2G (I think) but other manufacturers found ways to make larger cards but decided to keep the same physical format and so some devices have problems with either the newer or the older cards.

[64Guitars]

In features, the Zoom HD8 is way ahead of anything in its price range. However, I've never actually tried one yet, so I can't comment on how it compares with other recorders for sound and ease of use. I do think you should take negative reviews of any recorder with a grain of salt. They're usually written by people who didn't put in the required time to study manuals, talk to other users, and experiment with the recorder. Instead, they gave up in frustration because they couldn't understand the recorder instantly. People who expect instant understanding of their multitrack recorder with little or no effort are going to be disappointed no matter which brand they buy. You'll find just as many disgruntled Boss, Tascam and Fostex users if you look around. Any full-featured, multitrack recorder is a fairly complex piece of equipment and requires some study and experimentation to gain a good understanding of it, regardless of the brand. One advantage for Boss users is forums like this where there are always other Boss users willing to answer your questions. If you look at the forums for other brands, I think you'll find them less friendly, with the most common answer being "RTFM".

Tascam makes some excellent recorders. The most obvious advantage they have is the many dedicated controls for things like panning, EQ, and Effects Sends. This makes mixing easier and more intuitive than the Boss BR series, for example, where these parameters must be accessed through menus. However, there are some important features missing from the Tascam recorders: v-tracks, drum machine, and effects. If those features are important to you, then Boss and Zoom are probably the only brands to consider.

I recently compared the Tascam DP-02CF to the Boss BR-600 in the Yahoo! Boss BR group. See this message thread:

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/BossBr/message/2436

With Winter NAMM only a week away, I'd definitely recommend waiting to see what's announced there. Roland usually makes all of their announcements on the first day of the show (Thursday, Jan 15th). I don't know if they'll have any new recorders but, if they do, you may end up regretting that you purchased something else. Same for other brands such as Zoom, etc.

http://namm.harmony-central.com/WNAMM09/

[64Guitars]

The BR-600 isn't normally supplied with a power adapter so I have to either get that in the deal or buy it seperately - is that right?

Yes, you'll need a Boss PSA series adapter. The exact model depends on the electrical supply in your country (PSA-120, PSA-230, or PSA-240). Of course, you can also run it on batteries. Many users buy rechargeable NiMH batteries and a suitable charger. But I'd recommend using the PSA adapter whenever you can.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PSA120S

http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/shop/flypage/product_id/12713/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=base

(ANything else I really need to get at the same time?).

If I'm not mistaken, the USB cable is not included. You'll need one for backups and file transfers. It's just a standard USB cable like you'd have on a printer or other USB device for your computer, so you can pick one up at any computer store or electronics retailer that sells computers, peripherals, and accessories.

You'll need a good pair of headphones, if you don't already have some. You'll need a standard RCA stereo cable if you want to connect the BR-600's output to your stereo amplifier/receiver or active monitors. And you should get a mini stereo phone plug Y-adapter for the Line In connector, with either RCA connectors or 1/4" phone jacks on the ends, depending on what equipment you might want to connect to the Line In (keyboards, CD players, mixers, etc).

The BR-600 has 128K internal memory (is that right?)

I don't know how much internal memory is in any of the BRs (I don't think Roland has ever said), but the removable memory included with the BR-600 is a 128MB CompactFlash card. In some countries, Roland has run promotions where you could get a free 1GB memory card from them after purchase but I don't know if any such promotions are still on. In any case, 1GB memory cards are fairly inexpensive now.

ALso the max flash card size is 1GB is that right ? There seemed to be some confusion on whether it was 1 or 2G from what I've read but the small memory size concerns me as it's harder to buy a 1G card

Yes, currently the maximum addressable storage is 1GB in all BR models that use flash memory cards. This is a big problem because 1GB cards are getting harder to find. Most stores don't stock anything smaller than 2GB. If Boss announces any new recorders at NAMM, I certainly hope they will have a much higher memory limit. They'd be very foolish to announce a new recorder that's limited to 1GB.

[lemonstar]

Thanks 64 - you're replies have been really helpful. I've followed up all the links you posted in various threads and can see the importance of support for any device, both from the manufacturer and particularly from the users in the field, is something that shouldn't be underestimated. I'll still try and check out the Zoom myself but I'll have to hope that I can find a sales guy who put on a demo of the HD8. I _am_ going to wait for NAMM but I'm keen to kit myself out before 1st Feb (preferably ASAP so I'll have time to get to grips with the basics) - I'll be very lucky, I think, to get my hands on anything that's announced at NAMM but you never know - if it looks like there is nothing worth waiting for I think I'll go for the BR600 and make a start. Thanks again for your time - it's much appreciated.

[lemonstar]

It doesn't look like there is anything new from Boss or Fostex to compete with something like the BR-600.

Rolands new gear is here:-
http://www.roland.com/products/en/index_event.html
(follow the link at the top for Winter NAMM 2009 to see pictures of everything)

Tascam have a couple of new compact handheld recorders, the DR-100 and the DR-07:-
http://www.tascam.com/article;34,2034,3725.html

The Zoom H4n (n for next) was at the CES 2009 show:-
http://ces.cnet.com/8301-19167_1-10139655-100.html
which links to some good photos here:-
http://ces.cnet.com/2300-19506_1-100...s=0&o=10000185

Zoom also released some "missing link" software for the H2:-
http://www.podcastingnews.com/2009/01/08/samson-zoom-h2-recorder/

Maybe there is other gear - I'm still hunting around as the show is still on but I thought this might be of interest to others here.

[lemonstar]

TBH, although I had more money to spend I couldn't find anything that met my basic requrements (simple/drums/effects) that I thought was better value than the BR-600 so that's what I've ordered so I'll be around these boards for a while then. A shame I couldn't find something a little newer but overall it fits the bill. There's a problem I've seen mentioned about the lack of independent control on the headphone volume - how does that affect the use of the 600 in practice? Also I wondered if anyone here routinely records on the BR/600 and imports the wav files as tracks into Cubase for further processing? I use/have used Soundforge and Audacity quite a lot for post-processing. Anyway - I'm glad I found this place and plan on re-recording some of my old songs which are up on Virb.

[64Guitars]

TBH, although I had more money to spend I couldn't find anything that met my basic requrements (simple/drums/effects) that I thought was better value than the BR-600 so that's what I've ordered so I'll be around these boards for a while then.

I'm sure you'll be happy with the BR-600. Continue reading this forum as I'm sure you'll find lots of helpful advice, and you'll be able to take part in the collaborations, if you choose to. However, this forum is primarily aimed at the Micro BR and that's what most of the members own. So, I suggest that you also join the Yahoo! BossBr group, as it covers all of the BRs from the Micro BR and BR-532 to the BR-900CD.

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/BossBr/

I checked the BossBr member list but didn't see your name, unless you're using something other than "lemonstar". All BRs are very similar (especially the BR-600, BR-864, and BR-900CD) and you can learn a lot by reading about other BR models than the one you own. That's the reason the BossBr group exists. It allows all BR users to learn from each other, regardless of which particular model they own.

A shame I couldn't find something a little newer but overall it fits the bill.

Yes, I'm a bit disappointed that Roland didn't announce any new multitrack recorders at Winter NAMM. I haven't heard a peep from Zoom yet, so I guess it's still possible that they could announce something. Although, it seems unlikely at this point. Most manufacturers make their announcements early in the show. Oh well. Maybe Summer NAMM.

Anyway, the BR-600 is a great recorder and an excellent value. Its only drawback (as with all current BRs) is the 1GB memory card limit. It's not that 1GB isn't big enough -- it will hold plenty of songs and you can buy as many cards as you want. The problem is that 1GB cards are getting harder to find as bigger cards get cheaper and many stores stop stocking the smaller cards. Roland really needs to fix that problem soon. I thought they might announce some new machines that can address more memory at Winter NAMM but they let us down. A member of the BossBr group (who has a relative working at Roland) started a rumour last year that Roland might be releasing an update for some of the current machines to allow them to use larger memory cards. But I don't know if or when that might happen. We can only hope.

There's a problem I've seen mentioned about the lack of independent control on the headphone volume - how does that affect the use of the 600 in practice?

Yes, unfortunately, all of the BRs lack a separate headphone level control. In normal recording mode, it's not a big problem because you can use the Master fader to control the headphone volume. But in Bounce Mode, the Master fader controls the recording level. So you have to adjust it for the correct recording level according to the level meters, and that means the headphone level might not be ideal. Still, in bounce mode, you only need to listen for the end of the song to press Stop, so the headphone volume isn't that important. It's just annoying that you can't adjust it to the level you'd like.

One solution is to buy a separate headphone amp with its own level control. This also solves another problem. Some users find that the BR's headphone level is sometimes not high enough. A separate amp will have plenty of gain. Also, a separate headphone amp will probably sound better than the BR's. Yet another advantage is that they usually have several headphone jacks, each with their own level control. This might be handy when you're recording with friends and you don't want to disturb others in the house.

Also I wondered if anyone here routinely records on the BR/600 and imports the wav files as tracks into Cubase for further processing? I use/have used Soundforge and Audacity quite a lot for post-processing.

It's easy to export your tracks to wave files using the free BR Wave Converter from Roland. The wave files can then easily be imported into any suitable software. You can transfer the individual tracks and mix them on your computer, but I usually mix on my BR-864 then export just the mix into Audacity to trim the ends and possibly fade the ending. Of course, you can do much more in software if you want to, but I find that the BR does a good job and it's more convenient to do everything there.

While you're waiting for your BR-600 to arrive, you should download and study the BR-600 Owner's Manual, if you haven't already. There are links to some other useful BR-600 documents on my BR-600 page. You might also want to consider ordering the BR-600 DVD video manual. Also, you can download and install the BR Wave Converter, BR Explorer, and the BR Rhythm Editor. There's a file called "Fake_BR-900.zip" in the BossBr group's Files section. If you download it and unzip it into the root directory of any disk drive, you can start creating drum patterns and arrangements with the BR Rhythm Editor, even without the BR.

When your BR-600 arrives, check which firmware version is installed. If it's not version 1.11, download it and install it.