Micro BR-80

[Tony W]

Simon, I thought your review of the device reflected my own fairly well. Many good points, and the negative ones are not deal breakers, mostly annoying.

-  Should auto create new song in MTR mode.

Not sure what you meant here - that the recorder should automatically create a new song every time you go into MTR mode? Or did you mean create a new song the first time you ever enter to MTR mode? Or something else?

First time you enter MTR mode the recorder should automatically create a new song. On subsequent times it should offer to create a new song or ask/tell which one you're on.

I would agree with this, if NO SONG EXISTS. I was very frustrated with this very problem. I installed a clean SD card in the BR, and went straight to MTR mode to record. It took me 3 hours to realize that when no song exists, none is created on boot up of the device. (Every BR I've touched does this except the 80). I was very lucky that 64G posted the folder structure, or I would never have noticed a folder missing.

I wouldn't want it creating new songs in any other circumstance, ONLY when no new songs exist. I can understand Roland's logic behind this, with the CATEGORY selection added in, but I still don't approve, as it opens the door to operator error (yep me!).  

LIVE REC:
What a frustrating problem. I have yet to install the factory SD card back into the 80, but I have tried 4 other SCHC cards including a class 10 card which has given me the dreaded "Drive Busy" about 80% of my recording attempts. 20% of the time I can record more than 18 seconds of music. In the other two modes, I get no recording errors.

[64Guitars]

I would agree with this, if NO SONG EXISTS. I was very frustrated with this very problem. I installed a clean SD card in the BR, and went straight to MTR mode to record. It took me 3 hours to realize that when no song exists, none is created on boot up of the device. (Every BR I've touched does this except the 80). I was very lucky that 64G posted the folder structure, or I would never have noticed a folder missing.

None of the BRs create a new song on boot up. They create a new song when the card is initialized. In other words, if you initialize a memory card in the BR then look at the file/folder structure, you should see the folder "SONG0000.BR0" in \ROLAND\BR0. This is the new song. It should contain the usual set of files (SONGINF2.BR0, ARRANGE2.BR0, PATTERN.BR0, TAKE_EVT.BR0, etc.).

From what you've said, it sounds like the BR-80 does not create the new song folder when the card is initialized. Can someone confirm this, please? I mean, initialize a card then immediately look at the folder structure and tell me if there's anything in \ROLAND\BR0. If it's empty (other than the DISKINF2.BR0 file), then no song is created on initialization. If \ROLAND\BR0 is not empty, then I'd like to know what files and folders are there immediately after initialization.

[Tony W]

I should have known better than to post without being more detailed.....

It has already been confirmed. When the SD card is initialized there is no SONG0000.BRO

https://songcrafters.org/community/index.php?topic=11749.msg157260#msg157260

I chased that white rabbit for hours. If I get a chance, I'll grab my 80 at lunch and run through it, posting the resulting folder/file structure.

The BR does throw out an error message "No Song!"

I wish it read "No Song Exists create new song"

[64Guitars]

It has already been confirmed. When the SD card is initialized there is no SONG0000.BRO

Yes, I was aware of your earlier report that there's no song available in MTR mode until you create one. But what I'm trying to find out is if a song folder gets created in \ROLAND\BR0 on initialization. When you say "there is no SONG0000.BRO", are you saying that you've looked at the directory structure and found that the song folder is not there? Or are you just assuming that there's no SONG0000.BR0 folder because there's no song available? It could be, for example, that initialization creates a song folder but, due to a bug, gives it an invalid name which the BR-80 doesn't recognize. For example, if it named the song folder "SONG0000" instead of "SONG0000.BR0", the BR-80 wouldn't recognize it and you'd get the "No Song!" error message. On the other hand, if there is no song folder at all in \ROLAND\BR0 after initialization, then I'd assume that it's not a bug but a design oversight / bad decision. I would expect Roland to fix it if it's a bug. But they might not fix a design flaw unless there are enough complaints about it from users. And they may have had a good reason for not creating a song on initialization (if that's the case), although I can't imagine what it could be.

[Tony W]

OK, just got back from lunch, here are the results.

The first image is the Structure of the original BR-80, non-bastardized by me.



The second image is a formatted SD card after rebooting the BR-80

[64Guitars]

Thanks, Tony. That confirms that it's not a bug. For whatever reason, Roland just designed the BR-80's initialize function so that it doesn't create a new song folder. That seems like a bad decision to me, although it's not critical. It's pretty easy to create a new song. It just would have been nice if they'd designed it to create a new song on initialization like the other BRs do. Oh well. Maybe if enough folks complain, they might eventually offer an update that creates a new song on initialization.

[Tony W]

I think the reason they didn't create a new song was for the "Category" feature which is added in. In a nutshell it is a template wizard which will steer you into a rhythm and COSM effects banks based on selection. Check page 57 of the manual. That seems to be the real difference.

I also agree that it wasn't the best choice Roland could have made as well. It stumped me for entirely too long.

[64Guitars]

Just noticed that Roland has published a free Workshop booklet on the BR-80.

Getting to Know the BR-80
http://cms.rolandus.com/assets/media/pdf/BR80WS01.pdf

[64Guitars]

I think the reason they didn't create a new song was for the "Category" feature which is added in. In a nutshell it is a template wizard which will steer you into a rhythm and COSM effects banks based on selection. Check page 57 of the manual. That seems to be the real difference.

Possibly. But can't the user change the category after the song's created? If so, then the new song could just use some default category. It doesn't seem like something that must be decided when you create the new song. As opposed to something like Data Type (MT2, LV1, LV2) on some BRs which must be decided when you create the song because it can't be changed later. But anything that can be changed later can simply start with a default value in the new song.

Maybe they felt that using a default category would reduce the usefulness of that feature, so they made sure that all songs would have to be created by the user and he'd have to choose a category each time.

[64Guitars]

I just started reading "Getting to Know the BR-80" and noticed on page 3 that there's a System setting for battery type (I assume the choices are Alkaline or NiMH). I assume that's needed to handle the voltage difference (alkalines are 1.5 volts and NiMH are 1.2 volts). I wonder if that would explain some of the "Drive busy!" errors which a few people have reported. If you were using NiMH batteries but had the system setting on Alkaline, the memory card might not be getting enough voltage. It might be important to always check the BATTERY setting in the System menu when you're using batteries.