Minor board reorganization and Songcrafters' philosophy/direction.

[IanR]

Crikey

I though we just finished the last redecorating.

I'm still not used to it and we are changing again.

I know that someone always has to pay for anarchy but I still lean towards less rules and more freedom.

None of these comments help you make a decision but I do want to say that there is an awful lot of fussing going on.

Ian

[Tony W]

^ 64G, this song database idea sounds really good, amazing infact.  Thank you for all your hard work around here.

Hear hear! - If it wasn't for 64Guitars, much of this site would resemble a scrap yard....  He almost singlehandedly maintains and supports songcrafters and I for one am very grateful.

I am also in huge agreement with this. Many may not know this but 64G has don a ton of  development for me as well, for a mere thank you. He`s a hell of a guy.

[thetworegs]

Wow!!! You really only been playing 3 years BB that one he'll of a learning curve you are going through.....by the amazing standard of your music I thought you had been playing a lifetime at least........Im here to express myself and learn  From others  too....... And anything that makes that easier I'm right behind.......thanks 64 And admin for a great interactive site long may she live.........."

[Saijinn Maas]

I still don't see the reason we need to have any song posts separated. We all have varying degrees of ability. People's use of backers is NOT a negative thing, and those that use them should not be made to feel that way.

I would be shocked if anyone here felt like their music was more deserving of being on the 1st page than another... for ANY reason. 

Either keep them all separated or keep ALL songs to one forum. Why single out something out because it is wrongly classified as "not in the same league" with other posts.

[Geir]

I would be shocked if anyone here felt like their music was more deserving of being on the 1st page than another... for ANY reason. 

I don't think that many here think that Saijinn. I certainly don't! But I'm still in favour of seperating the originals from the covers and from the backers/challenges, because they are very different in nature. I have posted music in every catagory we have here, and I also try to comment on every catagory. And tho it can be frustrating posting a backer-based tune or even a cover and then have to wait days before you get any comments I still strongly believe that the all-originals should have their own board.

I do think the new General board in Post Your Work will get more attention, than the backer board have had so I think the minor changes that's been suggested will be a good thing for this site.

A minor change I'd like to se tho is that the "Recent Posts" list on the front page would have 10 instead of 5 entries.

[Saijinn Maas]

I didn't think so either G. But some comments have been made to the effect that because so much more effort was involved in originals and unique covers, they shouldn't be knocked off the 1st page by a post using a backer. Inferring that their post was of greater value than that of the backer.

I'm done with this issue... It's not my site. Not felt the same since the last changes. I am never in favor of rules for NO GOOD REASON. If it makes it easier to search, by all means! If it allows the jukebox to properly pull the music, then fine. But because you may not want to see it is NOT a good reason.

Just to give you an idea... My daughter came home from school one day saying that she was told that she could not go to school with black nail polish. Now, there was nothing in the school or district policy about this. So I made sure she went to school everyday, for the next two weeks, wearing black nail polish.

It's the principle. I don't even do backers anymore, no thanks to the step-child status it has been relegated too. But placing a value on one post over another based on effort and ability is bullsh!t. All posts should have an equal right to be viewed as any other.

I'm done.

[Greeny]

I'm done.

I won't be alone in thinking that this a sad turn of events. I'm hoping you'll reconsider?

[Saijinn Maas]

I'm done.

I won't be alone in thinking that this a sad turn of events. I'm hoping you'll reconsider?

Whoa! No wait! Sorry to imply something more serious...

I just meant that I was done arguing my point.

I love this place! That is the only reason I seem to get all bent out of shape sometimes about it. :/

Apologize for the misunderstanding.

[Greeny]

I'm done.

I won't be alone in thinking that this a sad turn of events. I'm hoping you'll reconsider?

Whoa! No wait! Sorry to imply something more serious...

I just meant that I was done arguing my point.

I love this place! That is the only reason I seem to get all bent out of shape sometimes about it. :/

Apologize for the misunderstanding.

Lol. I thought it was a last goodbye!!!!

[Bluesberry]

We all have varying degrees of ability. People's use of backers is NOT a negative thing, and those that use them should not be made to feel that way.

I am not saying I am against backers.  I use backers all the time.  I jam along to backers for hours on end on a regular basis.  My issue with backers is that somebody else did 90% of the music.  To take a backer off the internet, add a guitar solo over the top and post it is kind of like cheating in my opinion.  If a person wants to do a guitar based instrumental, then make the backer yourself.  We have all the technology and tools we need to make our own backers, why use backers at all when you are trying to create a piece of music.  I love hearing instrumental music, especially guitar based.  I am less interested in listening to somebody soloing over a backer, the same backer that i have heard 100's of times before.  Why use a backer at all in these cases, create something from scratch.  That is much more satisfying, and interesting for the audience (us listeners on this site).  This is a songwriting and home recording forum.  This is not a guitar noodlers site.  A lot of us on this site play guitar, but the emphasis here is constructing music.  Make your own backer, play a solo over it, now thats something.  Take a backer off the internet, a backer that everyone and their dog has played along to, spend 15 minutes laying a solo over it, that is much less interesting to me.  Why use a backer at all if you are creating music, I don't see the point.  I use backers all the time, jam at home to them every week, but when it is time for me to create some piece of music I don't want some anonymous dude on the internet to have done 90% of the music for me.  I don't see the point in that.  That is so much less original than starting from scratch.  And that is what this site is trying to promote, creating music ourselves, using our talents (all varying degrees), using our creativity, using our knowledge of music.  The problem with backers for me is that somebody else I don't even know had made most of the choices.  They have chosen the tempo, key, chord progression, bass line, piano, horns, you name it, it is already set.  My ability to create original or interesting music using this backer is limited.  I am stuck with what the backer dude chose to put down.  Now if I start from scratch, and I get to make all those choices, tempo, key, what chords, fast part, slow part, soft part, loud part, drums here, no drums there.......etc. Now when it is time to lay the big epic guitar solo over the top, this is far more interesting, satisfying, creative, original music.  Why use backers at all for making music to post on here, just start from scratch and make your own.  That is what we should be encouraging on here, being original, being creative.  Using backers to produce music feels like cheating to me.  And to say the level of effort required to either use an already produced backer or to start from scratch is the same, that is just crazy talk.  Make you own backer, don't go stealing somebody else's already recorded music.  Everyone of us has the skill (each in our own way), the tools (each in our own way), the inspiration and creativity (each in our own way) to create music, to create our own backers, to create wonderful engaging musical compositions.  We don't need somebody else to do 90% of the music for us.  Thats the way I feel about backers.

As an example.........over on Tony's site they are having a blues music fest........and for the most part the members over there have created the backers themselves.........thats the gold I am talking about...........and then they are taking the member created backers and adding all kinds of stuff, vocals, keys, guitar solos, and essentially crafting original blues songs from these member created backers............thats really cool, thats the way to use backers IMO, create them ourselves.................Hell, we could have a spot over here for member created backers, anybody that feels like making a backer or has a piece of unfinished music, post it all in one spot, and then other members can come along and use those backers for jamming, adding vocals, finishing into original songs, whatever, the sky is the limit.............but they would be more special IMO because they would be 100% member created music...............thats what I am trying to say in this long winded post about backers, lets make them ourselves.