MBR

[64Guitars]

Just to add, when I bounce/ master the four tracks to a stereo pair, how do I do it? meaning panning L50/R50, just slightly confused on this part.

Panning is a bit of an art. So you'll have to experiment with it and find the combination that sounds best to you. It might help to think of panning as the position of the player on the stage, where C00 is centre stage, R50 is the extreme right, and L50 is the extreme left. If you set the lead guitar to R25, for example, then it would sound as if the lead guitarist was standing on the stage about halfway between centre and the extreme right. If you pan all of the tracks too close to centre, you'll have no separation (ie; it will sound monophonic). You can pan the guitars to the extreme right and left if you like (ie; rhythm guitar L50, lead guitar R50, etc.). That style of panning was popular in the early days of stereophonic recording but nowadays tracks usually aren't panned so extremely. I'd suggest setting the rhythm guitar to L40, lead guitar to R40, and vocals & bass to C00 for starters. Then listen to the mix and try adjusting a track a bit more to the left or right to see if it sounds any better.

The most important thing when mastering is getting the recording level right (Master Level). First, set the relative levels and panning of the individual tracks to get the desired mix. Then adjust the Master Level according to the L/R meters in the display. You want the level to be as high as possible without causing clipping. That means that the topmost segment of the meter should only light occasionally, if at all. The other segments should light fairly frequently, depending on the content of the track at a given moment. If there's no activity in the top three segments, then your recording level will be too low. If there's too much activity in the topmost segment, then you'll get clipping and your recording will sound very distorted.

As I said before, mastering doesn't affect your individual tracks. So, if you're not happy with your first mastering attempt, you can always go back and try it again. If it sounds distorted, for example, then try mastering again, but this time set the Master Level slightly lower.

[chip]

Cheers 64, I am pretty ok with the panning, clipping etc having done it before with the old cassette stuff also being on stage with the band helps, me being in the middle ( singing and guitar), bass to my right, synth to left, lead far left and drummer behind me.
 I was just concerned with bounce to the stereo tracks but having read yet another of your informative posts I now know? I pan L50 R 50 after the bounce? to keep the stereo field if I want to record say a fifth track.

 Do I bounce the drums or leave them till before the master then add them. I seem to remember someone saying don't add the drums to the bounce. Of course if there is only four tracks, then it doesn't matter. Cheers Chip.

[Geir]

I always save the drums to the mastering and preferably the bass as well to get a good balance between drums and bass.

You might also find this thread useful :

https://songcrafters.org/community/index.php?topic=9128.0

[64Guitars]

I was just concerned with bounce to the stereo tracks but having read yet another of your informative posts I now know? I pan L50 R 50 after the bounce? to keep the stereo field if I want to record say a fifth track.

Yes, the stereo mixes should be panned L50/R50. Although, it's not that important until you bounce again or master. Then you're including one of those stereo mixes in the new bounce/master, so you need to keep it L50/R50 to preserve the stereo panorama of the mix. In normal record mode (ie; not mastering mode or bounce mode), panning only affects what you hear while monitoring. It doesn't affect your recording. That only happens in bounce mode or mastering mode. The reason it's different is the placement of the mixer section in the signal path.

Normal record mode:  Input ==> Record tracks ==> Mixer ==> Headphones/Output

Bounce Mode and Mastering Mode:  Previously-recorded tracks ==> Mixer ==> Destination track pair

The pan setting is part of the mixer section. As you can see in the simplified signal paths above, the signal is already recorded before it gets to the mixer section in normal record mode. So any changes you make to mixer settings (panning, track levels, reverb, etc) can't possibly affect the recording. They only affect what you hear in your headphones. But in bounce mode and mastering mode, the recording takes place after the mixer section. So any changes you make to mixer settings will affect the final recording. That's why it's so important to set the Master Level properly in bounce mode or mastering mode (but not in normal record mode). The Master Level controls the output level of the mixer section. So, in bounce mode or mastering mode, it's your recording level.

By the way, your question reminded me of something I'd meant to mention earlier but forgot. When mixing a stereo track pair such as the electronic piano in my earlier example, you should set the pan to L50/R50. This ensures that the piano's left channel information stays in the left channel, and its right channel information stays in the right channel. In general, panning is for placing a mono signal within a stereo panorama. If the signal's already stereo, then you should set the pan to L50/R50 to preserve the stereo panorama of the source. The same applies when recording guitar through the Boss's stereo effects. Although, the Micro BR only has one stereo effect in the guitar algorithm -- tap delay (other Boss recorders have several stereo guitar effects). So, when using the tap delay on your guitar, always record to a pair of tracks. And when mixing that pair of tracks, set the pan to L50/R50. But for all other guitar effects on the Micro BR, a single track is all that's needed and you can pan it wherever you like at mixdown.

Do I bounce the drums or leave them till before the master then add them. I seem to remember someone saying don't add the drums to the bounce. Of course if there is only four tracks, then it doesn't matter.

Yes, as Geir said, leave the drums until mastering. Once something's in the mix, you can't change its levels relative to the other parts of the mix. So you should always hold off as long as possible on mixing. The drums effectively have their own dedicated stereo track with its own level control. So there's no reason to include the drums in a bounce unless you want to apply an effect to them. It's better to leave the drums on their own dedicated track so you can adjust their level at any time before the final master.

Also, turn off the reverb when bouncing. Otherwise, it will compound with each bounce or master since you're including a previous mix each time. If that previous mix already has reverb applied to it and you bounce again with reverb applied, you'll end up with too much reverb. So always turn the reverb off when bouncing and just add it when mastering.

[chip]

 Super stuff again. Can I connect the MBR to say a stereo amp and hear the sound through the speakers and can I connect my yamaha keyboard to the MBR to add say a piano?

        It's great all this info, it really does help. I am going to play around with another song, that is not so important as the others and see/hear what happens, this song can be the guinea pig song. Fantastic, I am sure everyone on here and those who have yet to find this place will find this info invaluable.

[64Guitars]

Can I connect the MBR to say a stereo amp and hear the sound through the speakers and can I connect my yamaha keyboard to the MBR to add say a piano?

Sure. You just need suitable adapter cables to connect to the BR's Line Out and Line In mini jacks.

For the stereo amp, probably something like this...

  or this...  

... depending on what type of connectors are on your amp and what cables you might already have.


If your Yamaha keyboard has 1/4" output jacks (as my PSR-2100 does), then you'll need something like this...



or maybe this with a couple of standard guitar cables...



If you go with the latter type, make sure the two 1/4" jacks are mono. Many of the adapters that look like this one actually have two stereo 1/4" jacks for connecting two sets of headphones to one jack.

I'd stay away from this type...



...for the keyboard because the 1/4" cables will put too much strain on the BR's mini phone jack and could break it.

[chip]

 Yep it all sounds good, I usually use the 1/4 inch unbalanced jack from the keyboard ( headphone socket) into my practice amp and take care on the volume from the keyboard amplifier before getting the desired level. This is how I have always done it, having had no desire to record or use it live, until now.

 Although the bouncing of the guinea pig song has not been done, listening to the other songs, I may have a over cooked the gibson (track one and four) meaning there seems to be distortion where I have recorded the instrument at to high a level. When I master the song ( and you did mention track level) can this error be reversed?  You have more than likely answered that already but I am a one for Q&A, talk through, promted and doing it on my own a couple of times until it's all dandy and understood.

 Once again thanks for yours and everyone else's time, It is... just a matter of time, like learning to drive before it becomes natural. I'm still up at 23.50 Uk time but now bed....

[Geir]

If you've recorded it too hot it's irreversible. Can sometimes be smoothed out by effects, but usually quicker to re-record it !!

[Gnasty]

If you've recorded it too hot it's irreversible. Can sometimes be smoothed out by effects, but usually quicker to re-record it !!

I second That!!!

[chip]

I have now recorded a version of "A Forest" The Cure. I have toned down the input ( MBR) on guitars and have ended up with a more sensible level, although the song is more darker/subtle than the other two. I may re-record the other two at at later time. I suppose sometimes trial and error plays it part, a learning curve is in progress.

I have noticed on blues drive the Gibson finds it difficult to play the game, also I like it loud. Out of interest my headphones are..... AKG K17.... they seem ok but I though they may not of been able to cope after I heard the distortion on the recording. Can anyone advise on these and what do you have? Maybe the headphone preferences have been debated, if so, is there a link? Cheers Chip.