MBR

[chip]

Well thanks for the welcome and I'm glad I'm not the only older type on here.

 Quite simply. I usually record a song pretty much in one take EX; guitar track1, bass track 2, guitar track 3, vocal track 4 then I pan etc and add drums ( very basic drums from the in built drum machine) Usually I am happy with this rough mix, I like the raw sound ( this is all done by me, one instrument at a time through the machine).

             Now .... instead of bouncing, can I use the mastering tool and mix the unbounced material to wav inside the MBR? and if I can, do you just bring up the mastering tool and do as you would as if you bounced before hand and where does it end up?

Also, I connected the machine up to the com today and  it was recognized by the com, so I have the converter, so all I do is either convert to mp3 or wav depending on which format I have chosen in the mastering tool and then save, copy to windows media player and burn disc, or ( which I have no idea about) do the mp3 thingamajig.

 Once I have mastered inside the MBR can I convert the song to both wav and mp3 on board the MBR and more importantly ( and this probably is the most ridiculous question ) listen back to it on the BR?

Anyway that lot should keep you and me going for some time, apoligies if all this has been asked before ( and I am sure it has). I have gone through the forum and sometimes there will be a link to guides but when I click, I get sent to some site dealing with micro cameras etc. At the top of the forum page under guides ( home recording) there seems to be none. I would hazard a guess that some of the links in the topics have been removed as they do go back a bit. Thanks for your patience.... Cheers Chip.

[cuthbert]

Hi chip,

I'll take first try at answering your questions.

Now .... instead of bouncing, can I use the mastering tool and mix the unbounced material to wav inside the MBR? and if I can, do you just bring up the mastering tool and do as you would as if you bounced before hand and where does it end up?

When you master your tracks (as when you bounce), you have to select the stereo pair of tracks and the virtual track number you want to master to. The Micro BR offers four channels, each channel with eight virtual tracks. By default after you create a song, you are recording to v-track 1 of each channel.

If four tracks is all you need, you can master to 12V2 (in English, that's channels 1 & 2, v-track 2 for each), select the Mastering effects that you want, and then hit Record/Play and let it play out all the way through. Once it's done, hit Stop.

Also, I connected the machine up to the com today and  it was recognized by the com, so I have the converter, so all I do is either convert to mp3 or wav depending on which format I have chosen in the mastering tool and then save, copy to windows media player and burn disc, or ( which I have no idea about) do the mp3 thingamajig.

To post your music here, export from your mastered tracks to MP3. If you intend to burn it to CD, export as WAV. Once it's finished, connect your MBR to your computer via the USB cable and you'll find your exported file (whichever format) in the MP3 folder.

Once I have mastered inside the MBR can I convert the song to both wav and mp3 on board the MBR and more importantly ( and this probably is the most ridiculous question ) listen back to it on the BR?

You don't need to export to hear it back on your MBR - just switch your channels to the v-track you exported to (e.g., switch channels 1 & 2 to v-track 2). You'll want to link these two tracks together by pressing both track (channel) buttons simultaneously - which will place an equal sign (=) between each track in the display. Pan 1 hard left or 2 hard right, and it will take care of the panning of its fellow track. Switch the remaining two channels to v-track 2 so you don't hear the recordings on those channels on top of your already finished mixdown.

If you have any questions about all this, just ask. Make sure to also refer to the manual as you go, but don't be reluctant to ask any questions here.

cheers,
cuth

[64Guitars]

Now .... instead of bouncing, can I use the mastering tool and mix the unbounced material to wav inside the MBR? and if I can, do you just bring up the mastering tool and do as you would as if you bounced before hand and where does it end up?

Yes. Bounce mode and mastering mode are very similar. They both mix the four currently-selected v-tracks down to a stereo pair. The only real difference is that mastering mode also lets you apply mastering effects to the mix.

You can get a stereo mix of your song in WAV format using either bounce mode or mastering mode. In mastering mode, you will be prompted at the end of the process with "MP3/WAV Export?". Simply press [TR4] (YES) to proceed and select the type (MP3 or WAV) using the CURSOR and VALUE buttons.

Alternatively, you can use bounce mode to create a stereo mix of your song, then export those two tracks to MP3 or WAV format using the procedure on pages 114 and 115 of the Micro BR manual. 4th edition.

As to where it ends up, that's up to you. In both bounce mode and mastering mode, one of the first steps is to specify the recording destination v-tracks. Of course, to do this, you need a good understanding of v-tracks. I recommend that you read my tutorial here:

https://songcrafters.org/64guitars/BR/Tutorials/V-Tracks_and_Bouncing.html

It's written with the larger recorders like the BR-600 and BR-864 in mind, but the same principals apply to all of the BR series recorders. The only difference with the Micro BR is that it has 32 tracks instead of 64, and a 4-channel mixer instead of 8. Other than that, v-tracks work the same way in the Micro BR as they do in the BR-600/800/864/900.

Once I have mastered inside the MBR can I convert the song to both wav and mp3 on board the MBR and more importantly ( and this probably is the most ridiculous question ) listen back to it on the BR?

When you master or export your song, you have to choose either MP3 or WAV format. There's no option for both. However, you can always repeat the export process (pages 114/115), specifying the same source tracks with a different output format. The MP3 or WAV file is saved in the MP3 folder of the BR and you can listen to it by switching to MP3 mode (see page 36).

If you want both a WAV file and an MP3, I think it would be best to use the BR Wave Converter software to create a WAV file, then use Audacity, Switch, or some other conversion software to convert the WAV file to MP3 format.

I have gone through the forum and sometimes there will be a link to guides but when I click, I get sent to some site dealing with micro cameras etc.

When that happens, please send me a PM with a link to the message and I'll fix it. The site started out as microrecorders.org but the name was later changed to BossBR.net then, finally, Songcrafters.org. Consequently, some of the links in older messages still reference the old names of the site and will no longer work. The messages still exists but I need to change the link so that it references songcrafters.org instead.

At the top of the forum page under guides ( home recording) there seems to be none.

Guides are an underutilised feature of the site. There is one guide in Home Recording on microphones for the Micro BR. Perhaps more will be added in the future. In the meantime, you should look in the forums for information on the Micro BR. There's plenty of it there. You can also use the Search feature to find messages on a specific topic.

[chip]

 Hi and thanks for the reply ( been a long time) I am getting better with the little siver machine.
 I have recorded a version of "Running down a dream" guitar, vocal, bass, guitar using 4 tracks. it's just about ok at 4 tracks so I am thinking of a bounce down then master.
 Lets say I bounce the song to the vtracks ( I have been looking through the forum and found some very useful stuff on bouncing, this one caught my eye)

https://songcrafters.org/community/index.php?topic=3240.0     last but one post by the ever helpful 64 guitars.

 then I want to bounce the next song ( my own composition)  with an aded accoustic in the bridge, so that's five tracks. Do I repeat the above (64 guitars) posts procedure using the same 2 v tracks as before for the Petty number. My reasoning is that because this is a different song the two ( same destinations are free) are now free, simply because it is a different song.

I know this is probably a ridiculous question but before I ruin 3 days of hard work I thought I should ask.

In my head I am thinking of keeping all songs on the memory card and building a collection but the sound will never get mastered this way and no one but me will be able to hear them ( CD mp3 etc)
I like listening to them through the phones on the MBR and I reckon by converting them the sound will be drastically compressed and the end result dissapointing.

 Having read the replies, I think I can get my head round the fact that I can still listen to the songs, (after they have been mastered) back on the the siver one.
  Excuse the confusion. If only everything was as simple as a guitar is.   Cheers Chip.

[cuthbert]

Unless I'm misunderstanding, there's no need to use the same song unless you want to use the same tracks - you can just create a new song.

Unless you don't plan on doing more than 5 or 6 songs, you should either back up your SD card to your computer hard drive, or get one or two more cards and then back up later. Scratch that, back up whenever you can! 

[chip]

Unless I'm misunderstanding, there's no need to use the same song unless you want to use the same tracks - you can just create a new song.

Unless you don't plan on doing more than 5 or 6 songs, you should either back up your SD card to your computer hard drive, or get one or two more cards and then back up later. Scratch that, back up whenever you can! 

Hi Cuthbert... So by creating a new song ( my own which is already recorded) I can bounce to vtrack 2 12 and  I then won't have written over the Petty number or do I have to bounce to say v3 12 if you get my drift. If I get this right, there are 64 virtual tracks for each song or is that the whole amount no matter how many songs, in other words 8 songs = Ex: 8x 8 tracks per song, then you run out. I may be going slightly round the bend. Maybe I should get the 600 as I will only need 6 tracks but I presume you still have to bounce the same anyway.

[cuthbert]

Okay, so now it sounds like you really don't need a new song, but just to add more tracks to an existing one? Don't record over your other v-tracks until you're absolutely certain you won't ever need them again. Instead, after you bounce to your two v-tracks, notch all your v-tracks up so they are at the same number - now you've got two new tracks to record on.

If I get this right, there are 64 virtual tracks for each song or is that the whole amount no matter how many songs, in other words 8 songs = Ex: 8x 8 tracks per song, then you run out. I may be going slightly round the bend. Maybe I should get the 600 as I will only need 6 tracks but I presume you still have to bounce the same anyway.

Nope, there are 4 'channels' on the MicroBR, with eight v-tracks per-channel: that's a possible 32 tracks total for each song. I believe the BR-600 is 8 'channels' with eight v-tracks per-channel: that's a possible 64 tracks per song. But yes, you do bounce pretty much the same, no matter which BR model you use.

[Geir]

I'll be back .... but one word right now :

BACKUP !!!!!

[64Guitars]

I have recorded a version of "Running down a dream" guitar, vocal, bass, guitar using 4 tracks. it's just about ok at 4 tracks so I am thinking of a bounce down then master.

With the Micro BR, you don't need to bounce and master if you've only recorded four tracks. You only need to master, since it will mix down the four tracks to a stereo pair and apply any mastering effects you choose. Bouncing is for when you want to record more than four tracks. After recording the first four tracks, you'd bounce down to a stereo pair. Then you'd listen to that stereo pair while recording something else on the two unused tracks. You could then bounce the stereo pair plus the two new tracks to another stereo pair and once again record two more tracks. And so on. When you're done recording tracks, you'd master the last mix plus any extra track or two to another stereo pair.



The above diagram shows how you could record 8 tracks on a Micro BR (rhythm guitar, vocals, bass, lead guitar, harmonica, ukulele, and stereo piano) and create a 2-track master from those eight tracks. You'd start out by recording your rhythm guitar to Tr1v1, vocals to Tr2v1, bass to Tr3v1, and lead guitar to Tr4v1. Then you'd bounce those four tracks to Tr1v2 and Tr2v2. At this point, Tr3v2 and Tr4v2 are empty, so you can use them to record your harmonica and ukulele while monitoring the mix of the first four tracks from Tr1v2 and Tr2v2. Then you'd bounce the four v2 tracks to Tr1v3 and Tr2v3. Now you can record your stereo electronic piano on Tr3v3 and Tr4v3 while listening to the mix of the first six tracks from Tr1v3 and Tr2v3. Assuming you're now finished recording tracks, you can master Tr1v3, Tr2v3, Tr3v3, and Tr4v3 to Tr1v8 and Tr2v8. No need to bounce these four because mastering will mix them down.

But if you've only recorded four tracks and have no need to record any more, then you can skip the bounces and go straight to mastering.

Lets say I bounce the song to the vtracks

The wording of that statement suggests that you think of v-tracks as some other kind of tracks that are different than "regular" tracks. Don't think of them like that. The Micro BR has 32 tracks. You can only play four of them at a time, so they're arranged into four groups of eight tracks each. On each of the four playback channels, one of the eight tracks from the group associated with that channel is always selected. That's the track which will play back when you press Play, or will be recorded when you press Rec. This selected track is called the v-track. Since four v-tracks are selected at all times, they aren't some sort of optional extra. You're using them all the time whether you know it or not. When you start a new song, v-track 1 is selected by default on each of the four channels. So, if you don't change the v-track selection, then your first four tracks will be recorded to v-track 1 of each of the four channels.

then I want to bounce the next song ( my own composition)  with an aded accoustic in the bridge, so that's five tracks. Do I repeat the above (64 guitars) posts procedure using the same 2 v tracks as before for the Petty number. My reasoning is that because this is a different song the two ( same destinations are free) are now free, simply because it is a different song.

I'm not sure if I understand what you're saying here. If you've started a new song, then it's completely separate from the first song ("Running down a dream") and has its own 32 tracks. It's not possible to bounce tracks from one song to another. Each song is stored separately on the memory card and you can only work on one song at a time. When you start a new song, all 32 tracks are empty for that song. If you record four tracks in the new song then want to add a fifth, you'd use the procedure shown in the diagram above.

I know this is probably a ridiculous question but before I ruin 3 days of hard work I thought I should ask.

As Geir and cuthbert said, it's a really good idea to backup your work to your computer before doing anything you're uncertain of. The backup procedure is described in the Micro BR manual on pages 106/107.

In my head I am thinking of keeping all songs on the memory card and building a collection but the sound will never get mastered this way and no one but me will be able to hear them ( CD mp3 etc)
I like listening to them through the phones on the MBR and I reckon by converting them the sound will be drastically compressed and the end result dissapointing.

At the end of the mastering process, you have the option of saving the master mix as an MP3 or a WAV file. A WAV file is uncompressed and will sound the same as the playback from the Micro BR, but the files are quite large. MP3s, of course, are compressed and the sound quality will be degraded slightly. You have a choice of bitrates when exporting to MP3. Higher bitrates give better sound but produce larger files.

It's important to realise that nothing happens to your original tracks when you master. They're still there and you can listen to them on the Micro BR just as you could before mastering. So, you might want to create both a WAV format master mix and an MP3. Use the WAV file for high-quality listening on your computer or for burning CDs. And use the MP3 for uploading to sites such as Songcrafters where file sizes must be kept small (under 6MB in our case). You can also convert WAV files to MP3 format using software on your computer (Audacity or Switch, for example). In that case, you don't need to export an MP3 from the Micro BR. Instead, just export a WAV file from the Micro BR, then convert it to MP3 format using software.

[chip]

 Hi everyone. 64 guitars.... what can I say?.... a quite brilliant explanation.... why Roland couldn't explain it like yourself , I have no idea.

I now understand, I think.......there is only one way to find out.

Just to add, when I bounce/ master the four tracks to a stereo pair, how do I do it? meaning panning L50/R50, just slightly confused on this part.
Thank you so much for the help, I had a restless night thinking of all this, what with running around yesterday stocking up on rechargable batteries and thinking I would never get round to using the silver one for what it was intended for:-)